Five4Fighting Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Just wondering what is considered the best grading company around? ANACS? PCGS? NGC? ICQ? I won't mention the other's as there is a bunch of them out there that I won't deal with (Am I wrong here in not dealing with others like SGS(Who I think has a lot of over graded coins)?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Never heard of ICQ. SGS is just total crap - you might as well waste money on buying plastic slabs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 In order that I see fit: PCGS (as much as I hate to admit it) NGC (to me they seem to be slacking lately) ICG (good company, really starting to impress me) ICCS (Canadian only to my knowledge, they use flips but still grade coins pretty darn well) ANACS ANACS has been in a horrible state. Lots of shake ups in that company. There are some others out there like PCI that are hit or miss. I personally stay away from those especially on Ebay. With any company always buy the coin and not the slab. With the top three you can at least get a good idea of where the grade stands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AuldFartte Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 I still believe ANACS belongs in the top three. My preferences would be as follows: PCGS NGC ANACS ICG ICCS (for Canadian coins ONLY) ... and I would NEVER consider any of the others for any reason at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 Just send your coin to me, I have some slabs and a color laser printer...I'll be happy to take your money and I will even pass it around a few 'experts' to get second opinions... thats the GDMGS Give Dru (your) Money Grading Service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted November 20, 2006 Report Share Posted November 20, 2006 ANACS used to be in my top three but as of late they aren't. Too many big changes and I'll let things settle down a bit. Hopefully bring back some respect ANACS had lost. By all means they are a good grading service. In fact I had planned on sending some of my own coins to them. Never, ever, buy a SGS unless seen in hand. Even then be cautious. I won't say much more than that. He may be watching........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 All grading companies are a total waste of money. You might as well just buy lottery tickets with the money. The only thing they are good for is authentication Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 All grading companies are a total waste of money. You might as well just buy lottery tickets with the money. The only thing they are good for is authentication Amen brother. TPG's are nothing but a waste of money if you are a real collector. Nothing should matter to a discriminating collector more than the overall eye appeal of a numismatic treasure. Grading and encrapsulation are aimed primarily at "investors" and not collectors. I cannot even say they are good for authentication, remember that one of the more well known TPG's graded several dozen counterfeit Morgans that were manufactured early in the 20th century and were only noticed as counterfeits after a peculiar mark was noticed on the reverses of coins of different dates. I buy the coin, not the holder. This coin is authentic, in a slab and graded much lower than it's eye appeal and condition would have suggested it would be graded. I did not buy it for the ridiculous grade IMHO but the eye appeal of the coin. I love it. It has not been tooled, cleaned, whizzed, plugged, coloured etc. It is all original, which is something that the great majority of Draped Bust Dollars are NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conder101 Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 remember that one of the more well known TPG's graded several dozen counterfeit Morgans that were manufactured early in the 20th century and were only noticed as counterfeits after a peculiar mark was noticed on the reverses of coins of different dates. Make that ALL of the top TPG's slabbed the counterfeit morgans. NGC caught it first all the way back in 1998 and stopped slabbing them. PCGS and ANACS continued slabbing them through 2004. (Something to note, although NGC decided they were fake and declined to slab any more of them they made no effort to try and get the fakes they had already slabbed off the market until it was publicly announced by the specialist collectors that they were fake and ANACS and PCG finally agreed. Then they all offered to buy them back. Up til that time NGC was just letting it slide and hoping they didn't come back, even though they knew they were fake. Oh they would probably have bought them back if one came in for regrading but they weren't actively recalling them. Also they have offered to byuy back the fake Micro O dollars and they each said how many they had graded. But they didn't start putting the Micro O designation on the slabs until 1998 (any of the services). We don't know how many of them are out there in older slabs that don't have the designation on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Make that ALL of the top TPG's slabbed the counterfeit morgans. NGC caught it first all the way back in 1998 and stopped slabbing them. PCGS and ANACS continued slabbing them through 2004. (Something to note, although NGC decided they were fake and declined to slab any more of them they made no effort to try and get the fakes they had already slabbed off the market until it was publicly announced by the specialist collectors that they were fake and ANACS and PCG finally agreed. Then they all offered to buy them back. Up til that time NGC was just letting it slide and hoping they didn't come back, even though they knew they were fake. Oh they would probably have bought them back if one came in for regrading but they weren't actively recalling them. Also they have offered to byuy back the fake Micro O dollars and they each said how many they had graded. But they didn't start putting the Micro O designation on the slabs until 1998 (any of the services). We don't know how many of them are out there in older slabs that don't have the designation on them. I would like to buy one of the slabbed fakes, they have to be of the calibre of the Omega St. Gaudens coins for quality. When a fake is so good it is authenticated, then it is highly collectible in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gpnyc Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I don't think the OP was looking for a debate on the merits of certified v. raw coins. To answer the OP's question, my list is small: NGC PCGS The old ANACS In that order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Endless subject for discussion. I liked the remark "The only thing they (grading companies) are good for is authentication". This is what most collectors want, to make sure their coins are authentic! WCO P.S. My list for grading world coins is about the same as gpnyc's: NGC PCGS ANACS for problem coins (cleaning, damage) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Endless subject for discussion. I liked the remark "The only thing they (grading companies) are good for is authentication". This is what most collectors want, to make sure their coins are authentic! WCO P.S. My list for grading world coins is about the same as gpnyc's: NGC PCGS ANACS for problem coins (cleaning, damage) But even authentication has been an obvious issue as per the discussion above in the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Endless subject for discussion. I liked the remark "The only thing they (grading companies) are good for is authentication". This is what most collectors want, to make sure their coins are authentic! WCO They arent really worth that either...a few experienced collectors can almost always come to the right conclusion on authenticity. If it fools experienced collectors it will fool the grading service as well most likely...as that is all they are, collectors with experience (you hope) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 But even authentication has been an obvious issue as per the discussion above in the thread. Authentication is ALWAYS an issue (that is why I put there a hysterical laughing smiley). Speaking of this we should discuss may be which grading company did less authentication mistakes and which offered better handling of situations when found out that slabbed coin is not authentic. At the end, this is what we are paying them for, to AUTHENTICATE our coins and PROTECT us in case a slabbed coin will be ever find out to be a fake. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 Authentication is ALWAYS an issue (that is why I put there a hysterical laughing smiley). Speaking of this we should discuss may be which grading company did less authentication mistakes and which offered better handling of situations when found out that slabbed coin is not authentic. At the end, this is what we are paying them for, to AUTHENTICATE our coins and PROTECT us in case a slabbed coin will be ever find out to be a fake. WCO I would say then to split hairs, that authentication and grading are what divide collectors from investors. I am much much more concerned with authenticity than the grade of a coin. Frankly I buy coins for eye appeal and some assurance of authenticity. Only once that I know of have I been stung by a counterfeit, a Hamburg 20 marks dated 1910 which I bought from a dealer in Hamburg Germany when I was there in 1993. I blame more myself for not knowing better, but I believe the dealer knew it was counterfeit, and I was a foreigner and wouldn't know. I learned my lesson and buy only from dealers I know or know of, or whom back their sales up with an unconditional guarantee. I still have the 20mks, I should make it into jewellry or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 They arent really worth that either...a few experienced collectors can almost always come to the right conclusion on authenticity. If it fools experienced collectors it will fool the grading service as well most likely...as that is all they are, collectors with experience (you hope) I disagree that "a few experienced collectors" may undoubtedly make verdicts on authenticity. From my experience, really dangerous and well made fakes may fool 9/10 of them. Serious grading services, on the other side, work with outside world-class experts in particular areas of numismatics so not just "a few experienced collectors" may look at the coin but world wide leaders in this particular field of numismatics. Also, grading companies do use equipment to authenticate coins in some questionable cases (that equipment luck most if not all "experienced collectors"). Some of them can even analyze metal structure and contents of different metals in alloy. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I disagree that "a few experienced collectors" may undoubtedly make verdicts on authenticity. From my experience, really dangerous and well made fakes may fool 9/10 of them. WCO If they can fool the experts in a grading company, and no, not the feeder co's, but the top three, then they will fool the "experienced collectors" too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I would say then to split hairs, that authentication and grading are what divide collectors from investors. I am much much more concerned with authenticity than the grade of a coin. Frankly I buy coins for eye appeal and some assurance of authenticity. Only once that I know of have I been stung by a counterfeit, a Hamburg 20 marks dated 1910 which I bought from a dealer in Hamburg Germany when I was there in 1993. I blame more myself for not knowing better, but I believe the dealer knew it was counterfeit, and I was a foreigner and wouldn't know. I learned my lesson and buy only from dealers I know or know of, or whom back their sales up with an unconditional guarantee. I still have the 20mks, I should make it into jewellry or something. Grading has nothing to do with collectors - investors. Every collector of coins is an investor and every investor is a collector. I remember similar Hamburg coin sold couple of years ago on e-bay. Went as far as I remember for about double of its melt value, most likely there were some who thought it is unlisted genuine coin. That's where grading-authentication would be useful! WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I disagree that "a few experienced collectors" may undoubtedly make verdicts on authenticity. From my experience, really dangerous and well made fakes may fool 9/10 of them. Serious grading services, on the other side, work with outside world-class experts in particular areas of numismatics so not just "a few experienced collectors" may look at the coin but world wide leaders in this particular field of numismatics. Also, grading companies do use equipment to authenticate coins in some questionable cases (that equipment luck most if not all "experienced collectors"). Some of them can even analyze metal structure and contents of different metals in alloy. WCO I did say 'almost always'...and I do believe that is correct. Just as a grading company can fail to recognize a fake but will probably 'almost always' catch one...I know people who have been collecting for 20-30 years...that is good experience and in my mind makes them 'world class' in their areas of collecting which is a subjective term in and of itself. Get a few of these guy to look at your coin and you now have 40-60 years of experience looking at a coin...Just my personal opinion...grading services are not needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 hey guys... just a little fuel for the ANACS fire... I heard a rumor about and at the show last weekend I had the opportunity to try it.... I was able to easily crack an new ANACS slab....... with my bare hands.... that's bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted November 21, 2006 Report Share Posted November 21, 2006 I did say 'almost always'...and I do believe that is correct. Just as a grading company can fail to recognize a fake but will probably 'almost always' catch one...I know people who have been collecting for 20-30 years...that is good experience and in my mind makes them 'world class' in their areas of collecting which is a subjective term in and of itself. Get a few of these guy to look at your coin and you now have 40-60 years of experience looking at a coin...Just my personal opinion...grading services are not needed. Well, I do believe that average collector does need a grading company, i.e. his coins authenticated and graded by them. Not every collector has experienced friends that can look at his coins. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 hey guys... just a little fuel for the ANACS fire... I heard a rumor about and at the show last weekend I had the opportunity to try it.... I was able to easily crack an new ANACS slab....... with my bare hands.... that's bad I remember picking one out of a box and it just "felt" like I could crack it just squeezing with my fingers. Very cheap slab and poor labels. I haven't seen one label that was smeared or badly creased. Yeah it doesn't take away from the value but it shows poor quality control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Update: I'd like to say.....ICG is officially screwed and ANACS got played and played hard. Taylor, who supposedly "retired", has rejoined ICG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedeadpoint Posted November 22, 2006 Report Share Posted November 22, 2006 Update: I'd like to say.....ICG is officially screwed and ANACS got played and played hard. Taylor, who supposedly "retired", has rejoined ICG. What is Taylor's full name? If it is the same guy I am thinking of, I met him at a Baltimore show last year. I was wearing a Northwestern shirt and he stopped me, said he went there, and we started talking. He said he is now the president of ICG or something. I can't remember exactly, but I thought it was cool even though they aren't highly regarded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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