Bill or Coin??

[Sir Sisu]

I recently saw a debate on this at another forum, and I thought it would be interesting to start the debate here.

 

Would you like to discontinue the $1 bill and let it be replaced by a $1 coin??

 

 

Keep the note for now. It is lighter for me to send in the mail.

 

The dollar note will eventually go as will the cent, but I do not think it will be mandated. It will happen with time and inflation. My guess is that it will eventually happen, but business will lead and government will follow. Large retail chains (where margins are small and are always looking to squeeze some more profit) will slowly began to price more items at $0.05 intervals. With each transaction, this will reduce the transaction time (more customers through a line, less cashiers needed), reduce banking costs of dealing with large amounts of 1 cent coins, etc.

 

I think that this process would already have been underway more vigorously if electronic payment methods were not so widely used. That is the cent's lifeline IMO. Stores/restaurants/etc get all the benefits of added cents (think $29.99 instead of $29.95) without the downsides of dealing with physical coins. Take all cards out of the equation, and I would guess that businesses would have already begun the switch to a 5-cent rounding. I guarantee big companies have made the calculations. When those calculations turn and weigh against using the cent, it does not matter what the zinc unions say. Companies will not order cents from commercial banks and they in turn will not order them from the Reserve Banks, and soon they will not be made.

[joanjet]

I love coins, but Americans in general do not want their dollars to be coins. And I have to agree. I never used the Sacs or the SBA's when they were in circulation but I sure do like to collect them. Paper dollars are here to stay.

 

[Capt-AWACS]

which proves my point American's don't like change[sic]...

 

Sisu, while I agree, for the most part-- with sales tax/VAT taxes like they are, stores will have to list prices with tax already included..which is rarely done in the USA. Movie theatres are the first example that comes to mind.

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Redheads are nuts

[Sir Sisu]

...

Sisu, while I agree, for the most part-- with sales tax/VAT taxes like they are, stores will have to list prices with tax already included..which is rarely done in the USA. Movie theatres are the first example that comes to mind.

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Redheads are nuts

 

 

Oh yeah, I forgot about that quirk in the system. So much much for my theory.

[San_Miguel98]

I dont think the penny will ever go away. Its vital to every day life. When you include tax, what are you going to do when the total is $31.21? You dont have a penny to give them, and you cant give them $31.25 and expect 4 pennies back, because they dont have any either.

 

if the total is $31.21, charge $31.00. if it's $31.23, charge $31.25. personally, i find pennies annoying when i receive them in change. the military did away with pennies a long time ago, and it's quite easy (and non-vital) to go without them. after 8 years of no pennies, i have to admit receiving my first cent in change was exciting....but now they're annoying again.

 

[San_Miguel98]

i'm all for a dollar coin, but now is a bad time. we're stuck using ugly quarters (except for maybe texas & connecticut, off the top of my head), and sacs turn an ugly poo brown. if we replace the dollar bill with a coin, we'll likely be using the first lady designs, and we'll be stuck with even more ugly money.

 

i know it will never happen, but i think our coins should return to their older, more aesthetically pleasing designs. mercury dimes and peace dollars and such. comparing our money to what the rest of the world has....it seems we're being shafted with the mediocre.

[Dockwalliper]

With the house already passing the president dollar coin bill and the senate version with now 46 (out of 100) cosponsors its just about a done deal that our next dollars coins will be the president series. I don't plan on spending one nickel on a first lady gold bullion coin.

[Metalman]

I like the one dollar bill and I like the one dollar coin , we have both, use what you like, there is no need to to discontinue either, the aurgument that it will save tax dollars ,thats a crock!!! we will never see a decrease of tax dollars.

 

Rick

[Capt-AWACS]

No it is a fact that the gov't will save 25-30 million a year minimum on dollar coins if paper dollars are removed. They might spend it on something else, but the savings are there-mainly due to how long a coin lasts versus the 18~ months of the dollar.

 

Sanmiguel, I've always liked having no "pennies" in the BX, but I often use pogs, as I have some many If all stores listed prices with Tax included (again like movie theatres) that would help the process.

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Forum alpha breeder male

[Metalman]

Awacs

 

Glad that you think so !! But there are two sides to every Coin!! If the dollar bill was discontinued and replaced by coins, one could say that the government would save 20 or 30 million a year, which if that was the only effect maybe true, but anyone who is a forward thinking person would realise that the use of higher denomination bills would increase as a result,, now at first glance this may seem irrelevant But as these bills gain use , their expected life in circulation drops, thus the production of more new bills in the upper denoms, would in no time offset the gains by discontinuing the one dollar bill, and this is just the beginning of the extras in cost,, and not just to Government, the cost to the Business world would be tremendous, as all of the machines would need to be updated,, I have yet to find a machine that will make change or even accept a sac dollar!! I think a further forward view is in order before any such savings can be estimated and defended.

 

Rick

[Capt-AWACS]

-"who is a forward thinking person would realise that the use of higher denomination bills would increase as a result,,"-

 

Actually that would not be the case at all (other country’s have done it and not spent more over time). Gov't estimates have shown people are more inclined to spend the coins (dollars) but nothing is shown as increasing for high bills. For higher denom bills to be spent more, you would need some serious inflation, which I don't see happening. (I see no cause and effect to increase high bill usage without the one, other than $2s if we keep printing them, which I think should be done at first)

Besides, the money the mint makes selling coins to the FED, Seigniorage , easily makes up for any lost on a few extra $5s being printed. Not to mention the original money saved sans the cost of printing coloured dollar bills every 18 months-- they are "billed" to the government at cost, which is where that 20-30 million comes from. Most of the vending machine industry already came up with dollar coin machines, and worked with the feds on the Sac dollar design (and electric conduction properties, to help with the slug detection.)

 

I use the dollar coins all the time, and I use them in vending machines all over the States. It is not often advertised that they work but most do, ditto newspaper machines and all the toll roads I've used. Look harder they are out there. As a funny aside, I’ve even seen vending machines that take two dollar bills (and used them).

 

Ciao, and Hook ‘em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, When it absolutely must be destroyed overnight

[Dockwalliper]

There are 50-60 vending machines in the factory where I work and all that I have tried DO take dollar coins. I carry a few with me to work every day. It is so much easier to pop in a coin than trying to feed a crumpled or sweaty bill into the slot.

[Metalman]

There are 50-60 vending machines in the factory where I work and all that I have tried DO take dollar coins. I carry a few with me to work every day. It is so much easier to pop in a coin than trying to feed a crumpled or sweaty bill into the slot.

 

well aint that somethin, I guess we all here in the desert southwest, needs to catch up to all you city slickers, I have not found one place to use the dollar coin in a machine around these parts !!

 

so I guess lets do away with the cent coin,and the paper dollar,, make up some ugly a$$ dollar coins with the First Ladies of the night on them, and then we can join the EU, and take on a world currency thats good anywhere in the world LOL sheeesh.

 

By the way ,the vending machines where I work do take Quarters ,nickels and dimes !!

 

The waitresses at the truck stops take dollar coins !!

 

Rick

[Dockwalliper]

Now I know where all our old machines went.

 

A few things of note....

 

Our machines don't give dollar coins as change. Buy a Pop with a $5 bill and you get 16 quarters change. Put a $20 in the change machine....Your gonna walk with a limp the rest of the day.

 

Every week when I go to the bank I ask for a few dollar coins (for the machines at work) and it has always been hit or miss. I might get 10, 2 or none. But the last few weeks every teller had a stack to offer. Last week I was even offered a full roll.

[SilverDollarMan]

fJord, I would really love to have a plastic coin!>>>>>NOT!

 

Keep the paper in my wallet and coin in my safe.

[Burks]

Personally I liked the $1 bill but do know people who pay me in $1 coins every day at work. I asked them why they do and they told me that the coins don't rip, get wrinkled, or get soggy when wet. I had to agree with them on those couple points. There have been many times when a soda just sounded so fine and behold! Poor old me doesn't have a $1 bill the machine will accept.

 

The SBA would be my $1 of choice though. The only problem I have is that it can be easily confused for a quarter (which happens a lot at work). The Sac dollar just never caught on with me. *shrugs*

[Capt-AWACS]

well aint that somethin, I guess we all here in the desert southwest, needs to catch up to all you city slickers, I have not found one place to use the dollar coin in a machine around these parts !!

 

so I guess lets do away with the cent coin,and the paper dollar,, make up some ugly a$$ dollar coins with the First Ladies of the night on them, and then we can join the EU, and take on a world currency thats good anywhere in the world LOL sheeesh.

 

By the way ,the vending machines where I work do take Quarters ,nickels and dimes !!

 

The waitresses at the truck stops take dollar coins !!

 

Rick

 

Well I "lived" Las Vegas for 5 weeks, was just in Phoenix for two, Tucson for a few days, and Albuquerque all the time and never had a problem getting Dollar coins into vending machines. This is an aside from the fact the fed and transport machines already use them and give them back (granted mass transit is a lost art in much of the Southwest but the use is mandated anyway). You seem to have a problem with the design of the coin, or do you fear the perceived cost of a changeover?

 

The dollar while widely accepted is not quite good "anywhere" in the world, but it is close-- the higher denom bills is normally what you see. In fact most $100s circulate outside the US.

 

Again, I'll always take the savings in fed money (as I noted above) and within two years American's will not remember the swtichover ala the currency change of the 90s. It just takes momentum to make it happen.

 

As for the One Cent coin, that will eventually go the way of the DoDo as inflation continues, but it will be a while. As I said a few replies back, it will take businesses to force this change and the first thing they must do is price items with Tax already included (again like most movie theatres).

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, I was told there would be no math

[Metalman]

Well I "lived" Las Vegas for 5 weeks, was just in Phoenix for two, Tucson for a few days, and Albuquerque all the time and never had a problem getting Dollar coins into vending machines. This is an aside from the fact the fed and transport machines already use them and give them back (granted mass transit is a lost art in much of the Southwest but the use is mandated anyway).  You seem to have a problem with the design of the coin, or do you fear the perceived cost of a changeover?

 

The dollar while widely accepted is not quite good "anywhere" in the world, but it is close-- the higher denom bills is normally what you see. In fact most $100s circulate outside the US. 

 

Again, I'll always take the savings in fed money (as I noted above) and within two years American's will not remember the swtichover ala the currency change of the 90s.  It just takes momentum to make it happen.

 

As for the One Cent coin, that will eventually go the way of the DoDo as inflation continues, but it will be a while.  As I said a few replies back, it will take businesses to force this change and the first thing they must do is price items with Tax already included (again like most movie theatres).

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, I was told there would be no math

 

AWACS

 

You know IM not a kid ,Ive lived a little life and Ive seen the settle changes in everything from Child rearing to Monitary changes, I was around when Silver was taken from our coins, and I have watched as the FED which you seem to be so fond of, caused Inflation to spin out of control in the early 80's , My business at the time barely survived .

 

and now , I watch as the EU developed, and put in place a type of currency designed with no reflection upon History and Individuality of nations, in My own Mind, I do not believe that this is a good thing, We fought in History for our freedom from a Government that controlled even the very basic of Human rights,

 

I see this change in our currency to be an attack upon the very existence of the US as a stand alone nation,One that will over time erode all that we hold with pride in our hearts what we have achieved ,,, I do not wish to follow the example of europe, canada, or any other country .

 

You ask how can all that be in a dollar bill ? all this amounts to IMHO is just another small erosion of Independence and a step toward a world government .

 

The Dollar Bill is just the Beginning all paper currency will follow ,, You said it your statement :(Again, I'll always take the savings in fed money (as I noted above) and within two years American's will not remember the swtichover ala the currency change of the 90s. It just takes momentum to make it happen.)

 

That to me is something to protect ourselves from !!!!

 

Rick

[Capt-AWACS]

-"You know IM not a kid ,Ive lived a little life and Ive seen the settle changes in everything from Child rearing to Monitary changes, I was around when Silver was taken from our coins"-

Coulda fooled me kid j/k . I've lived on four continents, been to all seven, lived in 11 states, and done my time with my own business (which is doing great BTW). I'm glad you have been around, so have I. Now that we have that out of the way....

 

 

-"FED which you seem to be so fond of, caused Inflation to spin out of control in the early 80's , My business at the time barely survived "-

 

I never noted a fondness for the FED, nor mentioned one-- do not attempt to put words in peoples mouths to prove a weak point. I really do not care about your business as it has no bearing on the point at hand. As for the FED of the early 80s talk to Jimmy Carter not to me about it. But I digress and I would hate to have to call myself a hypocrit, it seems it survived so I guess you did fine, congrats.

 

-"I see this change in our currency to be an attack upon the very existence of the US as a stand alone nation,One that will over time erode all that we hold with pride in our hearts what we have achieved ,,, I do not wish to follow the example of europe, canada, or any other country .

 

You ask how can all that be in a dollar bill ? all this amounts to IMHO is just another small erosion of Independence and a step toward a world government ."-

 

I see the fact one can stuff a dollar bill in a stripers G-string versus having to throw a coin like in Canada, errodes my independence. That makes a lot of sense I can feel the UN troops approaching as their evil plan to introduce the dollar coins begins.... please. The conclusions you are trying to draw are so far out there and not connected, it is beyond left field. If another country has done something smart, it is not a bad idea to look and follow that example. Do not try and act like France and be contrarian at all costs, it will only hurt the US.

 

 

-"The Dollar Bill is just the Beginning all paper currency will follow ,, You said it your statement :(Again, I'll always take the savings in fed money (as I noted above) and within two years American's will not remember the swtichover ala the currency change of the 90s. It just takes momentum to make it happen.)"-

 

Thanks I needed that laugh after a long night LOL. (ANd yes I like things to save my "Wasted" tax dollars-- the gov't saves million on $1coin vs dollar)

 

SO let me get this straight, the dollar bill, as opposed to a coin, mind you, makes me more independent living in America? I see, the "worthless" paper --as many call the FIAT versus the ugly coin of yours--affects our independence...how.I see, it is another gov't conspiracy, that makes a lot of "cents" [sic]

Paper currency is not going anywhere anytime soon, in fact the GAO studied if a $500 bill should be reintroduced.

Again Americans will not remember the switch because Americans have short attention spans, this is not a hit on Americans as poor old 28plain could not understand, it is fact. America is the fattest country on earth, and people have shorter attention spans this doesn't make them bad, it is just fact, fat people are still productive. People will gripe at the swtich then move on. That news story will be the flavour of the month and then die, and again folks will move on and use the dollar coin.

 

Are you afraid we will all get currency cards where your spending is tracked? Do you fear the feds are watching you? Trust me, the gov't is not that good nor competent, your rights are fine. As for this discussion, I see now why you did not answer myfirst response to you, it is not money, but the gov't action you fear. You should have said that up front and saved some me bandwith.

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Seven continents down, none to go

[Metalman]

well gee AWACS I had no Idea I was so screwed up,, What was I thinking?

 

I should have realised that freedom is in no way tied into the monitary system .

 

And that the removal of anything to do with Independence and freedom from our Money is not actually a bad thing, after all it makes us more acceptable to the rest of the world if we look a little less proud .

 

Oh by the way, Im very impressed by your resume !!!

 

Thanks for your time, sorry that it was wasted on someone who will not change their mind !!

 

Rick

[Capt-AWACS]

-“well gee AWACS I had no Idea I was so screwed up,, What was I thinking?”-

I didn’t know what you were thinking, and I’ve tried to give you a chance to articulate it. You did not address much of my posts above, and this is a bit tangential. But forums are all about ideas I guess.

 

-“I should have realised that freedom is in no way tied into the monitary system .”-

 

You are trying to tie in two different issues again, this is my biggest problem with your posts (and I would love to see some link in the two, honestly). A switch to a dollar coin, in no way effects, nor affects your freedom. I am still waiting for any link, or basic premise stating otherwise—other than vagaries and hyperbole. I don’t say that to be a “dick” I am serious, if you would rather PM it that is fine, but I still see no link in the two.

 

-“And that the removal of anything to do with Independence and freedom from our Money is not actually a bad thing, after all it makes us more acceptable to the rest of the world if we look a little less proud .”-

 

We don’t have to be proud, we have to be smart. If using a dollar coin, saves money, increases commerce, and lasts longer our using it does not make us less free. You keep on as if, there is a big conspiracy by the government, well where is it? I’ve worked for various branches of the US government and have yet to see anything even vaguely relating to competence, let alone the ability to create and manage a conspiracy (and I’ve got a high enough clearance to find one- I haven’t yet).

 

-“ by the way, Im very impressed by your resume !!! “-

Good, but I doubt I’ll ever need you to give me job ;-) . I enjoyed hearing about yours as well. One should always be proud of themselves and what they have done, and surviving Jimmy Carter is honestly amazing. Luckily I was overseas for much of the Carter debacle and too young to remember much of Ford.

 

-“Thanks for your time, sorry that it was wasted on someone who will not change their mind !!”-

I am not interested in changing your mind, I just like noting facts versus conjecture when discussing a topic. I am sure you don’t want/need to change mine. My main point was in your last post on the previous page, about the bills/spending/tax-- Which I answered above in the first post. The other points are all tangential at this point, and we digress a bit. The discussions are always “fun” for me so thanks.

 

Ciao, and Hook ‘em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, I post, You decide

[Tiffibunny]

Now I know where all our old machines went.

 

A few things of note....

 

Our machines don't give dollar coins as change. Buy a Pop with a $5 bill and you get 16 quarters change. Put a $20 in the change machine....Your gonna walk with a limp the rest of the day.

 

 

I'm surprised at this. Our vending machines all take and give Sacs, but they don't give as many anymore as they did the first few years they came out since no one really uses them anymore. Patrick has taken to putting a $5 in the machines at work so he gets all quarters back to add to his collection and gets disappointed if he gets a $1 back.

[Ætheling]

America is the fattest country on earth, and people have shorter attention spans this doesn't make them bad, it is just fact, fat people are still productive. People will gripe at the swtich then move on. That news story will be the flavour of the month and then die, and again folks will move on and use the dollar coin.

 

 

 

As opposed to Britain of course where people tend to have very long attention spans. So much so that the older generations will still ask for a quarter of sweets for 10 bob (i.e 10 shillings). Considering we've been decimal since 1971 it might come as a surprise to some to find people over 50 still walking around referring to things in shillings.

 

We just don't forget things, nor do we like change. So should the UK switch to the euro anytime soon (heaven forbid) then you can expect us walking around in 2030 referring to things in pounds and pence still. We do it on purpose, i'm sure.

[Ætheling]

On the note/coin front. If you consider yourself a forward thinking person that wants progress then you'll find the coin is progress because it makes more sense. More economical, they last longer, more durable etc.

 

If you're the ultimate force in conservatism like me then you'd back the coin yet again, coins came before paper money, so that's a good reason to back it in the first place.

 

See with a coin you can't lose.

[Metalman]

AWACS

 

Really the only real Facts that can be brought is the failure of the SB and the Sac dollar .

 

I do not see Government estimates as evidence!!!

 

its really clear that most folks dont really like the Idea, maybe the Government ought to listen to the people and quit trying to shove it down our throats.

 

Rick