Bill or Coin??

[28Plain]

As much as I like coins, they're a pain in the neck for doing business. It's easy to carry and conceal several hundred dollars in $1 notes but several hundred in coins would be a load. If the $1 note disappeared, then pricing at cash only markets would jump to $5 increments. We're almost at that point now anyway with inflation and the demise of small notes would push the subsurface economy (such as bazaars and flea markets) the rest of the way.

 

The dollar coin is probably going to happen pretty soon. I'll deal with it when it does.

[Capt-AWACS]

Lose the $1 bill, which forces the coin and continue to print $2s. People would adjust and it saves the gov't, i.e. taxpayers, millions each year. Other countries have done it --the US can also. Americans are just to adverse to change, but several polls have shown that when you talk about saving tax dollars then folks are all for it. If Belize can do it, the US can do it.

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Texas-It's bigger than France

[gxseries]

Honestly, I don't understand how much fuss the penny and the dollar coin be. Pennies are amazing annoying, but you know, I guess people still have fun collecting MILLIONS of them in barrels like some recent stories. Honestly, how much copper is just wasted to mint billions of such coins? If you have 100 of those pennies, sure it makes you seem like a rich man for a while but to think how much resources is wasted to make 100 of those, I think it's not worth it. You would rather make 100 $1 dollar and it would be more benefital to the mint.

 

It is a fact that a coin lasts a lot longer than a paper bill! I mean, a paper bill if heavily circulated, wouldn't last any longer than 4 years in daily transaction, whereas a coin can go up to 10 easily. And seriously considering that, the costs of producing coins are a lot more benefitical than producing the same banknote with the same value over a long period of time. I just don't understand how much more useful 1 dollar bills are nowadays besides tipping and probably fanciful errors. You can always argue that you have 7 or 12 one dollar bills, but what is the point if you can easily have a 5 or 10 dollar bills with 2 $1 coins?

[28Plain]

I just don't understand how much more useful 1 dollar bills are nowadays besides tipping and probably fanciful errors.

You'd understand if you handled a lot of cash in your business. The most used notes, from the standpoint of merchants in small retail are ones and fives. The most convenient for purchasers are the larger notes. One dollar notes will become impractical only when the dollar takes the place of the cent as the smallest unit of money, not before.

[Ætheling]

Some are saying keep the $2 bill, why?

 

The $2 bill is another failure like the Sac dollar ain't it? Might as well replace that with a coin whilst it's out of the running. It'd be easier to replace it now rather than getting a successful $2 bill and then a few years down the line everyone will be saying 'lose the rag $2!'

 

Coins are the way forward. In a paper/coin argument the coin will always come out on top because they simply last longer and therefore are more versatile. In a coin/plastic argument... plastic would do better.

[Mediccoin]

I think the coin would be nice in varying denominations. It would be neat to know that in a handful of coins I would have a large sum of money vs. carrying a wad of bills. That way if I'm robbed I can throw a handful of coins at the crook vs. handing him my wad of bills.

[Tiffibunny]

This may sound silly, but I don't really care if we have bills or coins or both. I seldom use cash and most change I get when I do have cash goes in the piggy banks. I use the ol' check card for everything.

[Brett]

I agree with Tiff. I mostly use my Visa check card. And I get Visa points when I use it

[Capt-AWACS]

Some are saying keep the $2 bill, why?

 

The $2 bill is another failure like the Sac dollar ain't it? Might as well replace that with a coin whilst it's out of the running. It'd be easier to replace it now rather than getting a successful $2 bill and then a few years down the line everyone will be saying 'lose the rag $2!'

 

Coins are the way forward. In a paper/coin argument the coin will always come out on top because they simply last longer and therefore are more versatile. In a coin/plastic argument... plastic would do better.

 

The $2 isn't a failure, per se,(just a victim of design like the 50c) and at current cash/inflation rates the $2 is still effective in paper form. Without a Dollar bill folks will use the Sac and the $2. The concept works well in other places, the gov't just has to put it into place in the USA.

 

As for the Sac being a failure, not really. The marketing campaign was bad, and the colour is fading, but the transit and postal uses are going strong. If the Dollar bill goes away people will use the sac. Much like the looney in Canada and the pound coin in Britain.

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Not all pilots are alcoholics, we don't go to meetings

[whohah]

I say keep all the present coined denominations and add $2, $5, $10 & $20 coins. The $10 and $20 could contain a fairly high fineness of silver and still circulate.

 

Keep the present paper denominations, just don't print as many. {Was that sound the sound of the various BEP Unions flipping out?}

 

No politician in the US will sign on to any bill removing George from our lives, paper or coin.

 

Regarding the 'amount' of copper in all those hoarded cents:

Since mid-1982, there's practically no copper in a cent any more. IIRC, they are 99+% zinc with a copper plating. The zinc production industry LOVES it...

 

Oh, well, just my US$0.02 [2 Zinclons] worth...

[Dockwalliper]

No way!!!

 

My wallet currently has $12 in it, $7 of that is $1 bills, if those were coins it would be a pain.

 

You would only have 2 coins...and 2 $5 or 3 coins and 1 $5, 2 $2.

 

People that think they will be stuck with a wad of coins in their pocket just don't get it.

Take a visit to Canada Ben.

[Dockwalliper]

I dont think the penny will ever go away. Its vital to every day life. When you include tax, what are you going to do when the total is $31.21? You dont have a penny to give them, and you cant give them $31.25 and expect 4 pennies back, because they dont have any either.

 

Without the cent prices are rounded up or down..$31.21 would become $31.20.

Cash registers would do it automatically just like they do now with sales tax. You wouldn't even notice.

[Dockwalliper]

Hang on you mean you have jars on the side full of pennies to let people give or take as they please?

 

Wow if you did that in England those jars would be empty pretty quick. Infact over here they have to put gauze wire over the money fountains to stop people trying to take it back out.

 

I'm telling you if they had a penny jar on the counter in our stores i'd be swiping ten pennies a day from every one i came across. And i certainly wouldn't leave any... jeeze i even stood at the till for 5 minutes once waiting for my penny change whilst the cashier opened a new bagful into the till.

 

Pennies make Pounds.

 

If I get to the register and find I need a penny I just look down, there's usually a few on the floor.

Take a look on top of the vending machines, people toss pennys on top all the time.

The only people that would really miss cents would be the charitys that rely on them for 1000's of dollars in donations.

[Dockwalliper]

Oh. yeah......... Ditch the dollar bill.

[Ætheling]

This may sound silly, but I don't really care if we have bills or coins or both.  I seldom use cash and most change I get when I do have cash goes in the piggy banks.  I use the ol' check card for everything.

 

 

Some of us don't have cards though. With me it's either cash or nothing. I suppose i could write a cheque if needs be, but i don't particularly like writing them, it's alot quicker and easier to have over a bagful of £1/£2 coins.

 

 

Actually this leads me to the chewing gum argument. Why do people by one pack of chewing gum and then pay for it with a credit card? Drives me up the friggin' wall. Handing over 40p or whatever takes what about a 30 second transaction at most. A card requires waiting for the till's computer to register and check it, then there's the signature thing, hee's your reciept. All in all that takes about 2 to 3 minutes on average. And when you have three people in a queue doing that that about 6-9 minutes in the queue rather than 1 and a half minutes.

 

Which when catching public transport that only runs every hour can be extremely frustrating... rant over.

[Tiffibunny]

I was just voicing my opinion on the dollar coin or dollar bill. The gist is either way it doesn't affect me or people like me much.

 

(And I don't just go someplace to buy a pack of gum. I wouldn't waste the gas. )

[28Plain]

The $2 isn't a failure, per se,(just a victim of design like the 50c) and at current cash/inflation rates the $2 is still effective in paper form. Without a Dollar bill folks will use the Sac and the $2. The concept works well in other places, the gov't just has to put it into place in the USA.

 

As for the Sac being a failure, not really. The marketing campaign was bad, and the colour is fading, but the transit and postal uses are going strong. If the Dollar bill goes away people will use the sac. Much like the looney in Canada and the pound coin in Britain.

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Not all pilots are alcoholics, we don't go to meetings

 

You're wrong about the $2 note. It's an inconvenient denomination and has never been a popular circulating note at any point in history when it was released. The failure of the $2 note has nothing whatsoever to do with the design, it's a matter of the number of denominations necessary for making change in a base 10 numerical system.

 

I've seen no evidence at all to support your claims about the Sac not being a failure. The design wasn't the problem, nor was the "marketing" strategy. Dollar coins are viewed as clumsy and inconvenient by those of us who use a lot of cash for one simple reason: they truly are clumsy and inconvenient to handle in everyday commerce. Dollar coins are being used almost exclusively in federally owned vending machines and they simply don't circulate besides their little trips from the post office to the banks.

 

If people liked using $2 notes and $1 coins then those denominations would be popular. They aren't, which should show the hard headed, non cash using proponents of these silly instruments something.

 

Just as an experiment, how many people here on this thread who favor the $1 coin and the $2 note meet these two conditions:

 

1. Live and do business in the US

2. Use cash as their primary tender when doing business.

 

Those who don't meet these two criteria may as well realize that the change they're proposing has been tried repeatedly and has just as repeatedly failed to prove its worth in our monetary system and that failure has been for very sound reasons not based on any stubborness or unreasoned resistance to change on the part of the cash handling public.

[The_Cave_Troll]

I dont think the penny will ever go away. Its vital to every day life. When you include tax, what are you going to do when the total is $31.21? You dont have a penny to give them, and you cant give them $31.25 and expect 4 pennies back, because they dont have any either.

 

 

Joe, 2 answers...

 

1) When this situation is encountered in Mexico (the only country I've visited that has this issue) the merchant will round the tax up to the next 10 centavos and then give "change" back as little candies.

 

2) When you buy gas the price isn't even cents, so what do you do when the amount you owe is $5.251? Well, the gas statin solves this problem for you by rounding up to the next cent and charging you $5.26. You accept it and it isn't a problem and the same would happen if the cent was eliminated.

[Capt-AWACS]

-"You're wrong about the $2 note. It's an inconvenient denomination and has never been a popular circulating note at any point in history when it was released. The failure of the $2 note has nothing whatsoever to do with the design, it's a matter of the number of denominations necessary for making change in a base 10 numerical system."-

 

 

Actually I am not, you have fallen prey to a bit of overdone false history in the numismatic field. Certain areas of the country used the two in great demand, especially the midwest in the late 19th and early 20th century. The two was used to pay workers in the oil fields for years, for example.

Change in a base 10 is easy as 2 works into that just fine. By that argument the 20 dollar bill should be a failure, but it is not. Unlike the Cayman islands we do not have a $25 bill.

 

-"I've seen no evidence at all to support your claims about the Sac not being a failure. "-

Then you are not looking or researching in the right places. The Sac didn't replace the Dollar bill, but the gov't knew that was not going to happen. It is working in the billets it was meant to fill.

 

-" The design wasn't the problem, nor was the "marketing" strategy. Dollar coins are viewed as clumsy and inconvenient by those of us who use a lot of cash for one simple reason: they truly are clumsy and inconvenient to handle in everyday commerce. "-

 

Unless you are going to a lot of strip clubs this is not true (and even in strip clubs in Canada and Europe the single coins work GREAT--more fun actually). Without being to much of a cultural snob, I've seen the dollar coins work fine in commerce on 7 continents, get out and look at these areas. American's fear change because they are, overall, lazy and uncultured. One could take that logic and say quarters are failures, are they clumsy?

Two seperate studies by the gov't showed the marketing campaign for the SAC failed, and the Wal-Mart release and term "Golden" caused people to hoard at higher rates than the SBA introduction.

 

 

-" Dollar coins are being used almost exclusively in federally owned vending machines and they simply don't circulate besides their little trips from the post office to the banks."-

 

And in mass transit and plenty of other places. I used them all the time in the states

 

-" If people liked using $2 notes and $1 coins then those denominations would be popular. They aren't, which should show the hard headed, non cash using proponents of these silly instruments something. "-

This is cart before horse logic. The gov't can lose the $2 bill as well if you like and have no $2 coin or use one, but the dollar bill is a waste compared to a coin. As a taxpayer it bothers me when the gov't wastes money. People will not stop spending if we only have coins, in fact studies show coins are more likely to be spent than dollar bills. $50 dollar bills are not popular, should we get rid of them? $100s are not popular and in fact not accepted at many establishments, should they go to?

 

-" Just as an experiment, how many people here on this thread who favor the $1 coin and the $2 note meet these two conditions:

 

1. Live and do business in the US

2. Use cash as their primary tender when doing business. "-

 

I do-- though I am leaving the US. How many people have used dollar coins in countries that don't have single bills?

Me and millions of others.

 

 

 

-" Those who don't meet these two criteria may as well realize that the change they're proposing has been tried repeatedly and has just as repeatedly failed to prove its worth in our monetary system"-

 

NO actually it hasn't, as both have been allowed to circulate together. You may think that people are then choosing the bills over coins, but basic human study shows people do not want change[sic] (no pun intended) and will stick to the status quo when given a choice in mannerism.

 

-" and that failure has been for very sound reasons not based on any stubborness or unreasoned resistance to change on the part of the cash handling public."-

See above, basic academic study shows otherwise, and the savings to taxpayers alone would make people more likely to favour it.

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, I've been called worse

[28Plain]

. American's fear change because they are, overall, lazy and uncultured. .....

 

I am leaving the US.

 

 

 

 

There's the main thrust of your argument. I took the liberty of condensing it for you. So long. Enjoy wherever you end up.

[Capt-AWACS]

There's the main thrust of your argument.  I took the liberty of condensing it for you.  So long.  Enjoy wherever you end up.

 

 

So you have no answer to anything posted. Allow me to condense your response- you are in 4th grade...I addressed every piece of your post in my reply quotes and you try one sentence because your assumptions were so invalid? Nice.

 

As for me going back to Iraq and Qatar (I appreciate your concern about my travels as noted above BTW)- I do like the tax free money but will not enjoy it, per se. I do look forward to living back in Maastricht as NATO flights are more fun the USAF ones and worth more money!

 

Again Your 4th grade debate tactics are fairly weak kid. Try answering the question at hand next post.

 

EDIT-typoo

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Seven continents down, none to go

[ccg]

Keep the present paper denominations, just don't print as many.  {Was that sound the sound of the various BEP Unions flipping out?}

 

That's my thought. Until the switch to the Euro, Germany did pretty well by having mainly a 5DM coin circulating, but also with a 5DM note in circulation, but in much smaller numbers.

[Capt-AWACS]

a slow "death" for the bill would be okay (unless you are at the strip clubs with 28plain who is still silent here, shocking) if you mean 2-3 years-- though I think 12 months would be a better timeframe, and economically would be the best looking at markets, rates, consumer spending, etc. Most vending machines now take the dollar coins and other items could be retooled quickly. Spending is projected to increase with a dollar coin, according a recent Stanford study, by up to 20% so the coin only option cannot come soon enough. The change, no pun intended, has gone well in every other country so hopefully it can be done in the US sooner rather than later.

 

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,

Capt-AWACS, Texas, It's bigger than France

[Guest Stujoe]

Personally, I like it the way it is. I see no reason to mandate the use of one over another.

[Dockwalliper]

As some of you know my other hobby is metal detecting. Each year my finds total about $300. I read on the detecting forums about people north of the border passing the $1000 mark every year. The reason? Loonies and Toonies. Not bad even with the exchange.

 

Bring on the dollar coins!!