OomPaul Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Do any of you guys with expensive/valuable collections store your coins in a fire-proof box or safe? Obviously the odds of a fire are miniscule, but would the heat from an "average" (?) house fire be sufficient to destroy coins? What about gold? I've been looking at coin safekeeping options, and found that a normal safe doesn't offer fire protection - combustible items inside will burn. A fireproof safe costs a whole lot more... Or do you use a safe at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 The average house fires gets about 1200° F, but that would be enough to severly or totally destroy your coin collection. Fire-proof boxes and safe are made to withstand a designated about of heat for a limited time. Most are given a UL listing. U.L. Label/Class 350°F-one hour and Class 350°F-two hour. The safe will maintain an interior temperature less than 350°F when exposed to fire for a period of one hour at 1700°F or for a period of two hours at 1850°F. Safe must successfully undergo all other requirements for the Fire Endurance Test, Explosion Hazard Test and the Fire/Impact Test. To get a UL Lisitng safe are put through the following test, depending on what type of safe you depends on what tests have been performed. The fire endurance test is the following... After heat sensors and paper are placed inside the safe, the unit is locked and exposed to a uniformly distributed fire. The furnace is regulated to reach a maximum temperature of 1700°F for a period of one hour, or 1850°F for two hours, then allowed to cool without opening the furnace. The interior temperature is recorded throughout the test and during the cooling period until a definite drop is shown and must never exceed 350°F. Once cooled, the unit is opened and examined for usability. The units locking mechanisms and parts fastenings are examined for security and the interior examined for visible evidence of undue heat transmission. The explosion hazard test is the following.... The safe is locked and placed into a furnace preheated to 2000°F. This temperature is maintained for 30 minutes (2 hour test is 45 minutes) and if no explosion results, the unit is allowed to cool without opening the furnace doors. Once cooled, the unit is opened and examined for usability. The units locking mechanisms and parts fastenings are examined for security and the interior examined for visible evidence of undue heat transmission. The fire impact test is the following... After the explosion hazard test the safe is removed from the furnace and within two minutes is dropped 30' onto a riprap of brick on a heavy concrete base. After impact the unit is examined for deformation, rupture of parts, damaged insulation and any other openings into the interior of the unit. Once cooled, the unit is inverted and reheated to 1550°F for a period of 30 min. (2 hour test: 45 min. at 1638°F). Once cooled, the unit is opened and examined for usability. The units locking mechanisms and parts fastenings are examined for security and the interior examined for visible evidence of undue heat transmission. I myself have a safe. And I am still in need of a bigger one. Using a safe can also help possibly lower your homeowners insurance. But the safe has to be less than 25 years old for the fire protection to still be insurable. Safes older than 25 years can only have burgalry insured on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OomPaul Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Thanks. When you say "severly or totally destroy your coin collection", do you think that would be defacement or actual melting of coins? Or maybe both, depending on metal content? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I just mean there would be major fire damage. Any coin you would want to try and salvage would have to be professionally cleaned by someone. You could end up with warped coins. Plastic could adhere to the metal from TPG slabs. I'm sure there are lots of possibilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Tin and Zinc are some of the lower temp metals that would melt first from a coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OomPaul Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Or a case of radical artificial toning... I was mainly interested in gold coins - I just looked up the melting point of gold, and it's 1948 F. So an average (whetever that is) house fire of about 1200 F, gold would not melt. Even if the coins were defaced in some way, the bullion value would remain. Thanks for the info. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vfox Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 Or a case of radical artificial toning... I was mainly interested in gold coins - I just looked up the melting point of gold, and it's 1948 F. So an average (whetever that is) house fire of about 1200 F, gold would not melt. Even if the coins were defaced in some way, the bullion value would remain. Thanks for the info. Keep in mind that if the gold is exposed to high heat and smoke for an extended period of time, the coin will turn black as night. Also, even though gold has a rather high melting temp., it doesn't mean the coin won't warp as Brett mentioned. Most dealers won't purchase a gold coin at bullion value if it has fire damage, or is deformed or defaced, you may not lose much, but you may lose some, especially if you choose to have it cleaned by a third party professional, or re-refined into an ingot. Trust me, if you have the coin bug, and are just now buying for gold bullion, you will at some point likely purchase more. Maybe even collect non-bullion as well. If not, you can keep important papers like titles to cars/land, insurance information, wills, or any other important combustable materials inside. The safe is WELL WORTH the investment! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostDutchman Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I saw what was left of a roll of buffalo nickels that went through a fire.... half the coins were completely melted... and the other half were partially melted... it made a pretty neat paperweight. coins and fire do not mix.. at the shop I have a 2200lb fireproof safe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I believe you also want to use a desiccant in a fire proof safe to reduce the moisture produced by the safe. My safe is not real expensive and I find I need to recharge my desiccant packs every few months. That might be reduced in a more expensive safe, but I've read that all fire proof safes produce a degree of interior moisture as a by-product of the fire proofing. The packs are not expensive and they include an indicator card so you know when to recharge them. A few hours in the oven and they are ready to protect your coins once again. The safe provides me with peace of mind. Professionals will get whatever they want, but the casual thief will be thwarted by a safe. ANA coin insurance rounds out my protection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OomPaul Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I think an unconcealed safe will attract attention in the event of a burglery. I have very few coins, so I'm considering getting a small fireproof case (UL rated) about 30 x 20 x 15 cm interior space. Almost like a small lockable briefcase, about the size of a shoebox . I saw one made by a U.S. company called Sentry - it seems pretty good quality. This could then be hidden in an unobtrusive place. It's about one third the cost of a fireproof wall-mountable safe - can hold a few dozen coins, documents etc. BTW I heard that dry (uncooked) rice-grains in a mesh bag can serve as a dessicant subsitute, but don't quote me.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burks Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I have my coins in a "fire-proof" safe. Basically they aren't even close to fire-proof. The only reason they are in those is so I can toss the boxes through a window and not damage the coins. Each weighs about 45lbs full. One of these days I'll buy one of those expensive safes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numismatistnick Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 A house fire would melt coins not stored in a fire proof box. I recall as a child throwing junk pennies and dimes ontop of burning logs in our fire place and later finding globs of melted metal in the ashes. However I am not sure about larger coins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted September 2, 2006 Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 A house fire would melt coins not stored in a fire proof box. I recall as a child throwing junk pennies and dimes ontop of burning logs in our fire place and later finding globs of melted metal in the ashes. However I am not sure about larger coins. I remember a long time ago one of my brothers in law was a lineman for the power company. He was out in the boonies and passed by an old burned out farmhouse. He went in and poked around and found a 40 pound glob of Morgans. He said it caught his eye when he looked in the window - it was inside the wall. I was amazed that they weren't discolored - nice and shiny - and they were all just melted enough to stick together, and some were bent over others like the watch in a Salvador Dali painting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OomPaul Posted September 2, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 2, 2006 I recall as a child throwing junk pennies and dimes ontop of burning logs in our fire place and later finding globs of melted metal in the ashes. And now you collect coins to ease your conscience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brett Posted September 3, 2006 Report Share Posted September 3, 2006 If you want a safe to help you keep moisture down, you should look into a media safe. I think thats the type i want to get next. I am looking at a 3 hour media safe which will maintain an interior temperature less than 125ºF and an interior relative humidity less than 80% for class 125, when exposed to fire as per the Standard Time Temperature Curve for 3 hours to 1925º. Successfully undergo all other requirements for the Fire Endurance Test, the Explosion Hazard Test, the Humidity Test and the Fire and Impact Test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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