Bluesfil Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Hi , I am looking for extra information on this issue. It is a beautifully struck coin in Ef - I have established that there were 950 only of them struck on teh occasion of his son Crown Prince Alexander (1)'s marriage to Princess Maria of Hessen-Darmstadt in 1841. 350 pieces were also issued in Gold and individually presented to Wedding guests. I have included some photos of the coin for people to view. Essentailly I am looking for any information on this coin - has anyone seen one recently etc, Rev Obv Auction Catalogue item from 1985, the last time this item was sold Thanks Phil PS sorry I haven't been around much as I have had a fairly hectic year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yikes!!! Someone from Aus having an excellent "medallic coin"!!! Welcome mate! Actually, this coin was supposely to be minted only as medals, with only 250 medals in gold, and 950 in silver. Your particular "coin" is actually a medal, but the real coin would have been "slightly" different. The coin would be "Rezal Gube" (in Russian) instead of "H.Gube. Fecit" and at the reverse, Gube F. is replaced by the the mintmark and mintmaster SPB HG. To top it up, there seems to be two different varities of the medallic coins, but these are much rarer than the medals. Still, this is an impressive medal and yours is just stunning! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesfil Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 So its actually a medallic issue of a 1 rouble coin - I couldn't find the issue in my Krause so I then reached the assumption there must be some reference books to Medallic issues. I did find some old auction references that referred a 'straight edge' so I am wondering if the medal also has a milled edge variety. The medal I have was last for sale in October 1985 and I just about fell over when I saw it - I tend to buy coins I like as opposed to pure investment items. Are you saying there was actually a 1 rouble coin with the same OBv/Rev apart from the mintmarks you mention or was it just issued as a commemorative medal. It also begs the question of why assign it a value of 1 Rouble? Thanks for your help - quite frustrating chasing down information on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Yes, confusing as it does sound, this "medallic-ruble" has some sort of story behind it. It DOES frustate me over how many catalogues get this infomation painfully wrong Originally intended to be strictly medals to commemorate the marriage of Alexander Nikolaevich and Great Maria Aleksandrovich, Gube, the same die master who designed the Alexsander Column and Borodin, designed this medal. As typical as what a Russian authority would do, late orders were given out and there were expectations of such commemorative rubles to be minted out in the same time. (else execution would be waiting? ) It probably was one of the biggest mistakes throughout the whole Russian numismatics as Gube never thought of how to fit the denomination "ruble" into the design. Think about it, if you are a die master, how would one be able to fit the denomination without destroying the beauty of his work? I wouldn't be able to. As for such, there are some sort of "variety" to tell the coins apart from the medals. Firstly, coins are supposely reeded edge against the medals, which are smooth edged. The other, is like what I mentioned, the different legends and finally the silver refineness. Silver medals were minted in almost pure silver and on the other hand, coins are minted in typical coinage alloy, which is 83 1/3 silver. Still Phil, yours is a stunning example. I'm still awed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesfil Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Thanks I really appreciate that information - helps a lot. The edge on mine is smooth. The impressive thing is that the medal is three dimensional - the conjoined effigys stand out a long way from the fields and is difficult to photograph because of the shadows cast by the high relief images. And as you say the engravers work is superb - glad he didn't try and fit the denomination. Are there any publications you can reccommend I buy to get more knowledge about russian medallic issues - this may turn out to be a new direction for my collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 There is two interesting things that you should note Phil: Not only did Alexander married to a German woman, but as well as the die master himself is German!!! Now you know why they are not typical Russian design. Gube's early coinage works for Russia are these two: They don't seem to be fasinating coins, but if you have them at your hands, the hair and the macro details on the monuments are just a shocker. I don't believe I am qualified to tell you what books are excellent for what you are looking for. There is a dealer on ebay, Valeriya whom I highly recommand as he is an expert when it comes down to Russian numismatic catalogues. This is his store: http://stores.ebay.com/COINS-MOHET-CATALOG-NUMISMATIC-BOOK You might want to send him an email and ask if he has the right book for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesfil Posted August 13, 2006 Author Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Ok - thanks, will do. I have just read the topic on Alexander 1 coins and the platinum restrikes or forgeries - amazing stuff. I also came across the reference to the Constantine pattern coins now in the Du Pont collection. Apparently he rejected the throne in favour of his brother Nicholas 1. A minor coup was attempted at Alexander 1 's death and only 5 of the coins were struck at St Petersbourg - to avoid embarassment, the coins were held/hidden in their treasury for 50 years until the Grand Duke Michaelovich acquired them for his collection in Paris. That what I call rare - 5 only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted August 13, 2006 Report Share Posted August 13, 2006 Beautiful medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesfil Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Resized the picture Rev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesfil Posted August 14, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 14, 2007 Obv I had a couple of dealers look at it in Melbourne and they remarked they hadn't ever come across one of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted August 15, 2007 Report Share Posted August 15, 2007 It probably was one of the biggest mistakes throughout the whole Russian numismatics as Gube never thought of how to fit the denomination "ruble" into the design. Think about it, if you are a die master, how would one be able to fit the denomination without destroying the beauty of his work? I wouldn't be able to. I think I will politely disagree. It would have been relatively easy to place the word ROUBLE in the exergue, with a curved date along the bottom edge. In the 1960s I corresponded with Dr. Spassky, who had looked into the documentation beyond that found in the corpus. He was adamant that all pieces were medals and that the Grand Duke was wrong to include it in the listings. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluesfil Posted August 19, 2007 Author Report Share Posted August 19, 2007 I think I will politely disagree. It would have been relatively easy to place the word ROUBLE in the exergue, with a curved date along the bottom edge. In the 1960s I corresponded with Dr. Spassky, who had looked into the documentation beyond that found in the corpus. He was adamant that all pieces were medals and that the Grand Duke was wrong to include it in the listings. RWJ Thanks for that - it has been a bit hard to research this one. The first major dealer I went to kept trying to tell me it was a 1 and half rouble and I was adamant that it was issued as a medal and as far as I knew the value of 1 or 1 and half was irrelevant. I am in the process of buying a new camera after having my Nikon stolen - the coin is far better in the hand and I need to get some better photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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