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Watch out for this fake ...


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Fake 1883 commemorative rouble

 

I know this coin is a fake cast copy because I bought it from this seller myself in February earlier this year. When it arrived, I noticed it looked funny (not silver) and weighed it imediately. It weighed in at 22.8g (catalog says it should weigh 20.7g).

 

Also, if you look very closely at the auction image of the obverse at 9 o'clock, you will notice a very straight horizontal line running from halfway to the center out to the edge of the coin. This is a flaw from the casting procedure, not a die crack! I held this coin in hand, so I know.

 

Unfortunately, I gave this seller a positive feedback because he refunded my money immediately; I was convinced that he had made an honest mistake. But now he is definitely on my list of sellers to avoid!

 

:ninja: ... OK, I have to stop now or my blood pressure will start to give me problems... :lol:

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In the meantime I got an answer to the e-mail I sent to the seller. He claims it is a different coin -- as I expected -- but there is still that telltale line at 9 o'clock!

 

Maybe he has a whole roll of these things?? :ninja:

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A convincing looking fake, very dangerous! Judging from the pics the colour might a little bit weird and the reverse looks too flat. These (too) seem to require extreme carefulnes!

 

I'm trying to find a nice example of this particular commemorative right now. Thanks for warning! :ninja:

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I'll say $1,800 -- although there are people who will pay a premium for that kind of toning. I am guessing that figure because the coin is graded "only" PF-58, and because some people would not pay as much as for a PF-62 coin. However, I won't be surprised if it goes for $2,500. I would be very surprised if it goes for much more than that, though. :ninja:

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  • 5 months later...

Hi, I have one of these coins, as part of my late father's collection. From reading this thread, do I take it that it might be worth quite a bit of money? It has been in a protective cover and looks in excellent condition. Now I know nothing at all about coins and haven't a clue about grading, etc, but the one I have is nice and shiny and as I say, looks to me in excellent condition. What's the best way of getting a valuation on these coins? How should I sell them? I also have quite a few Preussen coins and other roubles. Ay advice would be most welcome. Thanks.

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That depends on the grade of the coin that you have there. Non collectors have a tendency to overgrade what coin collectors think of "excellent condition" To collectors, excellent condition is very vague. Does it mean excellent lusture that has been cleaned and hence "excellent" condition?

 

It would be best if you can post some pictures. Welcome to coinpeople by the way :ninja:

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That depends on the grade of the coin that you have there. Non collectors have a tendency to overgrade what coin collectors think of "excellent condition" To collectors, excellent condition is very vague. Does it mean excellent lusture that has been cleaned and hence "excellent" condition?

 

It would be best if you can post some pictures. Welcome to coinpeople by the way :ninja:

 

Hi - thanks for your reply. I really could do with some guidance on these coins, as I say, I haven't a clue where to start!! To my knowledge, the coin hasn't been cleaned. The collection has been stored for 25 years and I really don't think my father would have cleaned them before that. I'll try and post a picture of this particular coin - although it might be later on this evening. I'll await your further opinion then.

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Hi - thanks for your reply. I really could do with some guidance on these coins, as I say, I haven't a clue where to start!! To my knowledge, the coin hasn't been cleaned. The collection has been stored for 25 years and I really don't think my father would have cleaned them before that. I'll try and post a picture of this particular coin - although it might be later on this evening. I'll await your further opinion then.

 

 

Hi, here is a picture of the coin. Any advice would be welcome. The picture unfortunately has a shadow on it - this is on the picture only and not on the coin.

 

Thanks

P1300038.JPG

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And here's the other side of it...

The pictures are pretty small, but it looks like it might grade XF or better. The hair on the obverse appears to have some wear; as to cleaning, it is impossible to tell with such small pictures.

 

What does it weigh?

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Hi again - sorry about the small pictures - I'll try and post some bigger ones this evening. As to the weight, my kitchen scales say 21 grams. Unfortunately they aren't so accurate that they can weigh in fractions of grams! What is the correct weight for this coin? I am not really sure what 'XF' means - is that good news or bad news or indifferent?? As I said, I have a whole collection of coins that I would like to sell but I really don't know where to start. Thanks.

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Hi again - sorry about the small pictures - I'll try and post some bigger ones this evening. As to the weight, my kitchen scales say 21 grams. Unfortunately they aren't so accurate that they can weigh in fractions of grams! What is the correct weight for this coin? I am not really sure what 'XF' means - is that good news or bad news or indifferent?? As I said, I have a whole collection of coins that I would like to sell but I really don't know where to start. Thanks.

The weight is probably OK since the correct weight is 20.73g. As to the grade, almost any coin reference will tell you what the different grades and abbreviations are. "XF" (sometimes "EF") is the abbreviation for "extremely fine". Above this, there is "AU" (almost uncirculated) and "MS" (mint-state) or "BU". In the BU category, there are further refinements of grade such as "choice BU", "gem BU", etc. Along with the letter designations, there is a numeric grading scheme which is popular in the USA and with some European sellers. This goes from 0 through 70 with 70 being "perfect". XF would correspond to a grade of 40; choice XF would be grade 45. AU is seen in grades 50, 55 and 58. Of course, the prices increase according to grade. In MS grades, one or two grade points can mean a big difference in price (sometimes double).

 

Where should you start? Well, asking questions here is certainly a good place. However, you need to have at least one good reference book so that you can tell what type and/or variety of coins you have. Also, you will need to learn how to grade coins the best you can, especially if they are higher-grade specimens. When you get around to selling the coins, many unscrupulous dealers will try to make you believe that your coins are in worse grades than they actually are so that they can keep the price low. OTOH, beginner collectors almost always overgrade their own coins until they have learnt how to grade properly. Also, dealers will not give you retail money for coins, even when you have come to an agreement on the grade, because they need to make a profit. The most you can expect from a dealer is probably 20%-30% less than retail.

 

Please note that the most commonly-used reference for world coins, the Krause-Mishler "Standard Catalog of World Coins", does not give up-to-date prices for Russian coins: they are usually much too low! Look around at different online auctions and you will get an idea of what your coins would sell for at an auction. If you are patient and don't have to sell all of your coins right away, you will probably come out better by offering them to an auction house or by selling them yourself on eBay than by taking them to a coin dealer and trying to sell them all at once.

 

BTW -- welcome to becoming a coin collector; I hope it's a fun experience for you! :ninja:

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Gosh - that all sounds very complicated!! Here's a link to a bigger picture. Any further advice would be welcome. What in your opinion, would be the value of the coin? Thanks.

 

http://mysite.orange.co.uk/olisoft

The coin looks authentic to me; however, there are very good fakes out there, and I am not an expert. You have already confirmed that the weight is "in the ball park". From looking at the larger pictures, I would say this is a nice AU-58 or even MS-62 example with proof-like surfaces. The scratch in the obverse field might keep it out of a slab, though. There is also some minor disturbance at 11 o'clock on the reverse. Like I said, I don't keep up with this series too much, but it would probably sell for around $200 ... if certified (i.e. slabbed), it might even go higher. Hopefully, you will receive some other opinions here besides just mine! :ninja:

 

If I were you, I would try to get it certified either by PCGS or NGC before trying to sell it. Congratulations on having a very nice coin! ;)

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Thanks - I have a whole lot of other roubles and kopeks that I might ask for an opinion on on another thread. This grading business is really confusing! I'm not really a collector - these all belonged to my late father. I think I would like to sell them. I also have a collection of stamps that belonged to him - but that's another story - I haven't even started on those yet!

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WCO is correct ... although it is sometimes possible to spot a fake coin from pictures, it is not possible to make any claims as to authenticity or grade just by looking at pictures.

 

That is why you should get a professional coin grading service to certify and slab your most valuable coins. The fees are probably not worth it for coins valued at less than $150 or so, but this one could be worth more. The selling price is much better when such coins are certified, and that makes it worth paying the fees for certification. However, there are only two or three companies out there which have solid reputations. These are PCGS, NGC and (mostly for "problem" coins) ANACS. ANACS will slab cleaned coins, whereas PCGS and NGC generally will not.

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WCO is correct ... although it is sometimes possible to spot a fake coin from pictures, it is not possible to make any claims as to authenticity or grade just by looking at pictures.

 

That is why you should get a professional coin grading service to certify and slab your most valuable coins. The fees are probably not worth it for coins valued at less than $150 or so, but this one could be worth more. The selling price is much better when such coins are certified, and that makes it worth paying the fees for certification. However, there are only two or three companies out there which have solid reputations. These are PCGS, NGC and (mostly for "problem" coins) ANACS. ANACS will slab cleaned coins, whereas PCGS and NGC generally will not.

 

 

 

About this coin I heard that some superb made not authentic (fake) pieces does not have a lover horizontal part of letter "Ш" on truncation of the bust so that letter looks as "III". May be someone can shed a light about it, is it true or not.

 

WCO

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