bobh

Elisabeth died on Dec. 25, 1761. Presumably, the dies for 1762 had already been prepared and probably quite a few coins already struck which later escaped being overstruck with the new designs of Peter III's short and misbegotten reign.

The 1831 rouble is particularly nice. Happy New Year to you, Jean!

2012 was a bit scarce WRT new acquisitions. I'm sure that I don't need to put a description on this (ask Steve Moulding if you don't know what it is -- after all, it used to belong to him!): Happy New Year! - С новым годом!

There are actually two kinds of roped edges (numbering of the edge types is standard): #1 = //////////////// #6 = \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Regardless of which side of the coin is up, the orientation of these marks stays the same (perhaps hard to believe unless you try it). Then there is the reeded edge: #3 = ||||||||||||||| And then there is the net-like edge: #5 = xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Also, there are other kinds of edges, some of which were used only for certain types. Every Russian numismatic reference I have seen lists these edges along with illustrations, so maybe you need to buy a book?

Are the scratches on the obverse actually raised out of the metal? It's hard to tell from the pictures.

That's exactly what the description says (in German): "Zinnabschlag von 1 Rubel 2 Dokumentenabschläge zusammengeklebt" = Tin copy of 1 rouble, 2 exhibition pieces glued together.

Looks suspicious to me when comparing this image with the other two on http://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/id,6194/prohod.html: "Bitkin 1283 (R4)": http://www.sixbid.com/browse.html?auction=568&category=12885&lot=593309 Also, there is a ridiculously low estimate of 1600 € Opinions? (PS - I am not bidding on this one)

There was a nice one just sold in the Elmen WWCC auction (lot 287) -- estimate was $2,000. Anybody have the price realized?

Dealer says it is Bitkin 357, but the Gorny & Mosch auction description, which is visible in the fourth picture, says "Vgl. Bitkin 357". Vgl. means "vergleichbar mit", or "similar to" Bitkin 357. Any time this is stated in an auction, it almost always means that the item is a modern novodel (=fake). They have to state that in order to cover their buttocks. It also has traces of silver plating on it, according to the Gorny auction description. Now why would anyone want to silverplate a rare unique plate coin (unless it wasn't genuine)?

Yes -- as they say in Russian: «Первый блин -- комом» (The first bliny is always a mess!)

The 1897 roubles tend to have either small stars or larger stars. The "pattern" roubles almost always have small (but broken) stars; however, sometimes there are large broken stars. Here is mine (bought for about €30 on eBay several years ago): If we assume that these were the result of mint errors, then I would think that they improved the edging devices so that coins of the later years would not be affected. I also think that the devices with smaller stars were probably more delicate and therefore broke more easily. Uzdenikov also lists them in his catalog. Severin, however, did not. I have no idea where Uzdenikov got his reference for them. R.W. Julian also lists them in his 1993 reference work on Russian silver coinage; presumably, Bitkin took these as a guideline. Almost always, when illustrations of the pattern edge appear, they are taken from Uzdenikov's catalog. But they don't really look anything like that! I saw in person (in Basel) the 1897 Brussels pattern coin sold in Dmitry Markov's New York Sale in 2007. The edge looked very much like your coin!

Nice one!

According to most references, this is the so-called Brussels pattern rouble. Here are some examples; the one sold in the F.R. Künker auction in 2011 also has a picture of the edge: http://www.m-dv.ru/catalog/id,2193/prohod.html The recently published reference work by Kazakov, however, states that there were actually no pattern roubles, but merely worn-out and broken edge lettering devices which produce the marks you have on your coin. He's probably right because most of the time, pattern coins are found in extremely high grade. However, most of the so-called Brussels pattern roubles have only been found in condition of F or VF. If they were indeed patterns, they all must have circulated widely. Of course, people continue to pay a lot of money for these!

What a good idea to use the foam support ... thanks! I've been looking around online for laboratory / microscope slildes, but most seem to be no wider than an inch or so. When I have some more time, I'll go to one of the laboratory supply stores here in Zurich to see if they have something a little wider. Some of my coins are 50mm in diameter (2 inches), and to get a good picture of those, you'd need a piece of glass that was at least twice that size in diameter -- and not too thick because that will have a negative influence on the image quality.

The slab seems to check out here: http://www.pcgs.com/Cert/26144446/ They even have a picture of the coin, and you can see that it is the same coin as in the eBay auction. But I wonder what the chances are of that particular "corrosion pattern" (looking like "M") occurring naturally?

Good luck! It is a nice one ... by now, the bid is over $1,000 already (833 Euros). Of course, you realize that by posting this message, you are attracting MORE bidders to the auction? If you are actively bidding on something, that is not the best way to keep the price down!

Sorry I missed your post ... I answered it now (over in the photography forum)! Happy T-Day, BTW!

Sorry I missed your post, Josh ... guess I should start following this forum again! I didn't pursue the matter any further yet; just haven't had time to look for other glass plates, or do much in the way of coin photography at all, for that matter. I support the glass by putting two stacks of books with a gap in between. The glass rests on the books at the left and right edges, and the coin is in the middle. You need to put something at the base of the glass to keep it from slipping, obviously ... taping it to the table is one way, or you can tape a pencil onto the table and rest the glass on that (i.e. on the table but up against the pencil). I found that the trick is to keep everything black (black books, etc.) to avoid any spurious reflections. I had to drape some black material over the camera tripod because I was getting relections of that, too. It's fun!

Are you trying to sell this coin? Auction runs another 3 days...

Thanks! These were all made from new dies and never circulated, so most of the time they are in really nice condition. Even so, this one picked up a little scratch somewhere during the 150+ years of its existence. This one was offered on two separate occasions for auction by Jim Elmen's WWCC. I bought it on eBay about 5 years ago, believe it or not!

Here's my 5 kopek novodel (Bitkin H662/R2):

Fascinating... ... Thanks for the update! (PS - please send me a personal message if you need help with any translations.) BTW ... your original post mentioned only Russian platinum coinage. I wonder what influenced the decision to expand to other countries (and counterfeits)? Pretty big field! Considering how difficult just the Russian numismatic area is in platinum, I hope that enough consideration is given to Russian platinum fakes ... these are sometimes very hard to identify.

No one has responded yet over in the fakes forum, so I thought I would ask here. Here is the link to the original thread: http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php?/topic/32896-opinions-on-this-1772-para-russia-ekat-ii-coinage-for-moldavia/page__view__findpost__p__573542 Considering how high the one in the Sincona auction went, I think someone probably paid $400 for a fake. But I'm not certain. If it is a fake, it is very cleverly done.

Original or fake? http://www.ebay.com/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=320996383479 The lettering of the legend on the reverse looks a little different than the pictures in the recent Sincona auction (lot 541 which went for CHF 19,000): http://www.m-dv.ru/monety-rossii-1700-1917/prohod,89302/coins,4190/type,6177/auction,83/date,2012-10-09/lot,541/images-prohod.html I'd say it was a very clever fake, but I'm no expert on this type.

Sorry, I didn't really think it was AT ... just meant to be a joke! Although, you never know...