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bill

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Everything posted by bill

  1. Thank you all. And, I voted for that beautiful Merc right up to the end. What a great time period for numismatic art in the U.S.
  2. Two great artists of their time.
  3. Thank you all (on behalf of Robert Aitken, the man who actually designed and sculpted the medal).
  4. Should have figured something like that. Nice piece.
  5. Great set, but your one cent appears to be round?
  6. If your family members are happy with the medals and value them for the subject matter rather than the silver content, then I do not see how you loose face. If you bought them as a silver investement, then you want to return them for a refund. The dealer should accept a partial return.
  7. Yes, less use than I thought it would get, but it will pick up when I start into appropriate projects. I find I don't really need it that often but I do use it on occasion since I do not have a steroscope. It really helps when I need close study of a small area. A loupe doesn't really allow the same study. My scope has a polarizer so I can vary the light. I can also turn its LEDs off and use an external light source. Those two features are what really makes it useful across different applications. I can also use it to make measurements, but I rarely have a need for that feature.
  8. I have a DinoXcope. I find it useful, but I do not use it as much as I thought I would.
  9. I've seen a number of the silver medals from this series with similar toning. They were all in their original Medallic Art boxes with the cotton padding intact and the folded information sheet enclosed. I suspect the toning is a product of the materials used at the time and being kept in that closed environment. I used an axial lighting setup and that creates the dark fields. The lighting was specifically chosen to bring out the range in color of the toning.
  10. I had a nice conversation last night with the Goetzdude who is writing is own thoughts on the dies. It will be interesting to see what he has to say. But, that conversation covered a number of topics and sent me back to my Kienast to reread the work after a number of years. Why make hubs to make dies for medals that will likely never require more than one die? You can go from the model to the die in one operation, no hub required. In fact the hub is an extra step and expense. Kienast covers that question. Goetz went from his model to a hub when he thought the medal might have a greater demand than he could fill with cast medals (a time consuming process in itself). His first step was making the hub so he could hand finish the detail as he wanted it. A die was then made and some elements were added directly to the die. So it seems he could work on the die, but prefered the positive image that the hub provided. The fact that Goetz hand finished each hub and die makes originals really interesting pieces. And that fact led me to a really big problem. If you go to the sale catalog, look at lot 27035, a reverse hub for a 36mm medal. It is rusted and the outer rim is broken off in several locations. This is obviously an old hub that saw the ravages of time? Since Goetz finished the hubs personally and then hand finished the die made from the hub, this has to be the original hub after use given its condition. Right? Well, if that is the case, then how does on explain lot 27042, a 36mm splash die made from the broken hub. A second 36mm die made for use with a collar is offered as lot 27041. A splash die is used for striking medals without a collar, something usually done for larger medals that have to be struck mutiple times to bring up the detail and with too much force to use with a collar (the force needed for high relief, large medals would break a collar). Medals struck with splash dies are usually finished by turning them on a lathe. Regardless of whether Goetz relied on a splash die or a collar die, he would never have made a die from a broken hub. If he finished the hubs and dies by hand to ensure the quality desired, why would he fool with a broken hub? There is more to the story of these hubs and dies than meets the eye. I am looking forward to Scott's comments when they are ready.
  11. I have no objection to collecting dies and hubs and have a few in my own collection. I believe they are legitimate collectibles. I have no doubt that the ownership or title to these pieces is legitimate. But, given that the items were in the Bavarian Mint, I assume the property or intellectual property of Karl Goetz and his heirs, and were reported to have been destroyed, it is a legitimate question to ask if they were legally "liberated" from the mint. Did the Goetz family lose ownership rights through their agreement or did time separate them from their rights? I don't know the answer to these questions and they may well have sold or surrendered their rights. At some point, the material becomes too old and the history lost. In this instance, the provenience of the pieces is of historical interest, even if we do not know the identity of the current owner. Where they go when sold is also problematic given there are so many of them. Will their existance cast doubt on future appearances of rare medals? Unidentified restrikes from original dies are problems in other collecting areas, either depressing the value of originals or bilking the unsuspecting purchaser who does not know better (think Unlisted metal variety, rare!). I think in this instance it is the magnitude (1200 dies and hubs) that raises concerns and suggests something more systematic than a simple case of someone picking up a die or two as war booty. It took some planning and effort to remove a ton or so of metal from the mint. On the plus side, they are being sold in a documented fashion in a well known auction house. The world will know they exist and will be on guard if rare medals start appearing with unexpected frequency. Maybe someone will issue restrikes, appropriately marked and identified, and re-invigorate an art medal market for originals. Only time will tell.
  12. A quote from the latest issue of the Esylum: Dale Krueger writes: I'd like to get some reader response and discussion over the latest Heritage auction coming up April 18-23. Specifically, the mysterious appearance of 500 or so hubs and dies of hundreds of Goetz medals. When I saw these items being offered in the upcoming auction, with no explanation or information attached, I was at once intrigued, puzzled, and horrified. All attempts to get additional information from dealers both here and abroad (by me and some cohorts) were met with either no response, no information to share, apparent total lack of understanding of the issue raised, and/or seemingly total apathy. A careful reading of the second paragraph from the bottom of page 2 of THE MEDALS OF KARL GOETZ by Kienast, is very clear. "Unfortunately, hundreds of metal molds and steels dies, which had been stored in the Hauptmunzamt in Munich, were rendered unserviceable by the bombings of World War II, thus rendering duplications of many medals impossible." Perhaps this industry/hobby would be better served if more questions were asked, more information was shared with collectors, and certain issues were brought "into the light". One German connection quoted a major Auction official saying "20% of all coins and medals on the market are not original, but this is not so important, if nobody knows!" My connection added, "I cannot work this way, but what´s one to do ?" I did see someone START to address the "Chinese Problem " in the last issue of The E-Sylum. I am not an expert....but some of you who are should be asking questions, and demanding answers....even if it doesn't yet affect your collecting niche.
  13. The dies and hubs were mostly produced at the Munich Mint, although some medals were struck at the Berlin and Vienna mints as well. A few of the early medals were made at a private mint. My guess is that the dies and hubs in the sale came from the Munich mint, "liberated" at the end of the war. But, I don't really know.
  14. There are 1200 to be sold across three auctions. It would seem to me that it should depress the market for them since I would be surprised if there were that many collectors of the material. Restrikes could become a problem in the future.
  15. Yes, it is legal. It is illegal to deface a coin with the intent to defraud.
  16. How about this for toned silver:
  17. Bill; Other Base Metals; Exonumia; 1860 We all have our hobbies http://omnicoin.com/coins/970984.jpg George Lovett's medal honoring coin and medal collectors. A popular commentary on our devotion to our hobby. Bill; Other Base Metals; Exonumia; 1876 Original Dickeson Continental Dollar Restrike http://omnicoin.com/coins/998205.jpg Dickeson had new dies made and restruck selected colonial era coins for the 1876 celebration of the birth of America. The dies were later used by Elder, Bowers, and then Bashlow for further retrikes. Bill; Gold; Exonumia; 1915 Official Medal of the Panama Pacific International Exposition http://omnicoin.com/coins/995345.jpg Robert Aiken's medal celebrating the opening of the Panama Canal and the uniting of the two hemispheres. Struck by the U.S. mint at the 1915 exposition in San Francisco. Gold-plated medals (such as the one pictured here) were struck at the Philadelphia mint.
  18. The fact that it only has one weight for the gold medal is likely a function of only one being available to weigh. It states only 40 were issued. Your weight difference is not that significant for medals not required to be struck to the same exacting standards as coins. The fact that it is not engraved suggests it might not have been awarded or recipients had to have them engraved themselves.
  19. I'm not sure why I didn't post my Westwood medal. I must have been busy when I acquired it: Pond 11 Struck by Cammall Badge Co. Gilt bronze about 3500 struck
  20. Perhaps related to the 1904 Louisiana Purchase Exposition, or more likely a Lafayette celebration?
  21. bill

    Cleaning coins

    I think most of us here would say no. There are times when coins need to be "conserved," but that is a task best left to those who know what they are doing. I can relate the experience of a friend who sometimes cleans dirty pieces with MS-70, basically a coin "soap." Most of the time it works fine, but sometimes he damages or destroys an attractive piece when he thought the action would be perfectly safe. In general, its a really bad idea.
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