Ian

There are numerous variants of the `Pietate et Iustitia' jetons, struck since 1561. It is the shield obverse that Mitchiner attributes to the issues made under HK. I agree that the description `Citizen and Soldier' seems a bit odd when looking at that particular jeton. Mitchiner is disappointing for `detail', even though his tome on the medieval period is quite hefty. There is no jeton described in that particular tome that is a match to the one in the image. In addition, there is only one jeton listed in that tome with the reverse legend (Aut Vinci etc) but it doesn't remotely fit the bill. Mitchiner does however describe a jeton which does have the two soldiers and references Neuman 32206: Feuardent 2274-75 rev: on left, armed soldier holding spear, gallic cock by feet: on right, similar soldier, hound by feet. They both hold between them a plant tipped by a lis: above all a small shield bearing three lis. Thats as close as i can get....but the reverse legend for the one and only one mentioned bears the legend `Gallia Fortit'. The obverse names the Registrar for the Court des Monnoies.

I have a copy, and a copy of the earlier catalogue (1986). They are great as `tasters' ....or `hooks'... providing insight as to the various subject areas and as to the depth of subject area. They got me hooked. CGB's catalogues (Jetons # I through to # XXII) are also excellent reference materials but the first 5 are now very difficult to get hold of in print form.

This example was manufactured by Hans Krauwinckel between1588/9 (Henry III type- Citizen and Soldier reverse). The type prior to this had Justice, Mars, and Piety on the reverse, supposedly representing the three estates of the realm namely Justice, the Church (Piety), and the Nobility (Mars). The obverse had two columns surmounted by a crown with an `H` inbetween. The Charles IX variety had a double C between the pillars obverse. (Mitchiner cites `Barnard 1917 pl 9 no 106' for that piece - knowing your excellent researching prowess, you might just be able to unearth it but i'll have a look in CGB's jetons XX for it in any event ) added: sadly, nothing in jetons XX

While there doesn't appear to be any `assurance' related items in this particular auction, there are some nice jetons de presence that are well worth a bid or three. However, I'm not sure i like the auction format being used. You submit a `bid sheet' via sixbid and the auction house then gets back to you telling you what you would need to bid to get the items. One had a start price of 10 euro, which struck me as being exceptionally low for the type. However after placing a bid on it (along with a few others) I was quickly advised by email that i had been outbid.......and that it would need a bid of at least 140 euro. Presumably if i placed a further bid at say 150 euro they would then get back to the person i'd outbid and tell them what they'd need to bid in order to outbid me.....and so on ad infinitum. It isn't quite the typical `electronic' auction that i've become accustomed to (and possibly spoilt by).

I've a couple of these. here's one of them

One of the harder ones to come by. Silver jeton /medal struck in 1862 for La Compagnie Francaise D'Assurances Maritimes.

a few more from my collection This one is a nice original jeton engraved by Jean Bertrand Andrieu and struck in 1816 for the Compagnie D'Assurance Du Havre, This one was struck in 1836 for the maritime assurer `Havraise et Parisienne'. This one struck 1836 for the `Union des Ports', another maritime assurer.

This jeton de presence was struck in 1914 for the directors of the `Compagnie de Vicoigne et de Noeux' (coal mining)

not a shilling, but a sixpence (aka a `tanner'). The little brother of the Birmingham Workhouse shilling. This one is dated 1812.....wasn't Napoleon was getting his ass whipped in Russia at that time?

Northumberland and Durham silver shilling

Silver jeton struck for La Garonne, a French maritime assurer.

It is indeed a brothel token. (monkey money for monkey business)

....resistance is futile

The 1804 piece was struck to facilitate trade during a period when `coin of the realm' was very much in short supply and new coinage simply was not being struck due directly to King George III's poor state of mental health. The piece was struck from `good siller', although god alone knows where they got the actual silver from. That same year in England they were using Spanish colonial silver pieces of eight to strike Bank dollars (aka 5 shillings) with.

Dublin (Anonymous) AR Shilling Token 24mm. 4.34g. King's Recovery (Private mint) Obverse: Woman placing crown on plinth, inscribed 'HEALTH/ TO THE/ KING'. - Obverse legend: PRO BONO PUBLICO Reverse: Aesculapius’ serpent around ancient brazier, weight and fineness 2 DWT – 20 GS with Sterling/ 1804 in exergue. reverse legend: PUBLIC HAPPINESS

Cheltenham shilling (Gloucestershire)

not halfpennies....but since the last one posted was from `Birmingham', here's it's big brother and an uncle! copper penny (Birmingham Workhouse) dated 1812, and a copper three pence (Birmingham Workhouse) dated 1813. The three pence is the size of a small hockey puck and you would definitely need assistance to carry around eighty of these if you were buying anything valued at 1 pound. There's an example of the silver workhouse shilling in the `silver shilling tokens' thread.

Firstly, I'm not sure whether the weights are all over the place or if the people weighing them are all over the place.....or both. I'm not aware of any particular note as to the weights for this particular jeton and none of my references make mention of it. However, what I can tell you is that the jeton type was probably struck in batches at the mint as required by the company then held in stock at the company for yearly distribution (between 1845 and 1880 (+ a few years) The planchets bear a very small incused edge mark along with the word `argent'. The Edge mark denotes the period in which it was struck, for example: `main indicatrice' - a hand with a finger pointing (1845 - 60) `abeille' - a bee (1860 - 80) `corne' - a cornucopia (1880 +) You will definitely need some means of magnification to tell which is which....so go have a look. That wil give you an indication as to roughly when the jeton was struck. next....there are three main variants for this jeton type, one with a slightly longer legend obverse and a stubbier font type than the one you have (it was struck between 1845 -1880+)....the type you have (struck between 1860 -80+) and the third which misses out the word `Humaine' in the reverse legend (struck 1880+) - not an error btw. All have the same date obverse (23rd May 1830) So, the first type could have any one of the three different edge marks I have mentioned; the second type (yours) could have either the bee or cornucopia edge marks; the third, only the cornucopia edge mark). So, plenty different types to collect and should be relatively easy to do so if you were so inclined I suspect that there would be some variation in the weights of the planchets used, one type to the next and one period of time to the next. I don't know for sure, but I imagine that the blank planchets were produced en masse and held in stock by `La Medaille' (the aspect of the Paris mint responsible for production of medals and jetons) in readiness for any particular strike run. As such it may well be that, if new stock was produced, there could be weight differences arising (and minute adjustments made determined by cost acceptability to the `client'. I am aware of a few jeton types where this is actually the case, and also where a very slight change to the actual silver content of the planchet has been made at the mint (1880's - early 1900's; often, but not always denoted by adding `1' before the word `argent' on the edge). Not sure if that answers your question or creates even more.... but hope it helps in any event

response received from the saints: " erm, lemme see now..... long enough to make sure that you are at least 300 feet away at the point of detonation."....."oh yes, and if you need any more detail than that you should consult a mathematician."

....to work out how far (and how fast) you have to leg it in order to be safe when the explosives are detonated..... (?)

Hi Michael. It's good to hear from you! Hope you are well, and thriving? ........your mention of ireland triggered memory that I have a few different denomination Irish bank tokens. Here's one for six shillings.

...it's definitely oxidisation / toning

....very few. These were produced for the owners / directors / shareholders

Thanks for the link. That is a fantastic resource! I've been using Seaby for my reference but Dalton is king. Until this week I only had five examples of silver shilling and six pence tokens. I bought these three examples as they were too good to miss for the price. I got lucky. I do have a small collection of the copper `conders' (mainly scottish ones) ....i'm a sucker for anything depicting castles, churches, cathedrals,....and ships, etc etc. I've always been interested in these items and the history / social circumstances which saw their introduction. However my acquisition of these has been more as a result of `magpie-itis' than being a determined collector of these pieces. It would be great if you did manage to find the time to take pictures /scans of your copper tokens. I'd really love to see them Ian

three cheap and cheerful examples of silver shilling (twelve pence) tokens issued 1811 during the reign and `madness' of King George III. The first is a Birmingham workhouse token the second is a token from Sheffield the third is from Bristol