RARENUM

I have in arhives printed copy of the price list (incl.grivennik) from Dmitry Aleksandrov /Chicago Dealer/,will try to find next week.

Yes, Eugene and Igor, that was my coin.

I'll better start a new topic on "the 1726 kopek", it is quite a story, I think I might still have a letter of the late V.V. Uzdennikov somewhere. All this was 25-30 years ago.

Give me a few days .

Sigi

 

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Hi Sigi,

Interesting,1726 was holding by collector from NY , according his words was holding for long time.I refused his personal offer for 2 coins (incl.Ex Sigi coin) because price was to high

Rarenum

Hello Minelaos,

Sorry,your coin is not not genuine,cast copy.

Welcome to the forum,Rarenum

Hi Sigi,

309-$500.00, 335-$325.00

Please send your contact pm and I will reply with pr

Rarenum

I used Denisov books ,one of the best for Russian Paper money

You save a lot of money not using red pass:).

Very nice I loved vacations in Europe,should schedule next year instead my wife preference (Islands)

1765 Siberia coin sold for 22k. Whch to me means split opinions, but leaning towards novodel.

Some body belived in story.

The edge is plain, unless I am somehow mistaken. I did look at the coin.

You didn't get red pass? I hope you enjoy your vacation

Very usefull info. and currently the best book about Shestak and Tympf's is Ryabtsevich book .For varaity Diakov book is very good but more expencive.

Rarenum

An article related to a great coin in the upcoming auction:

 

http://www.coinworld.com/insights/rare-russian-pattern-ruble-rejected-in-1886-leads-sincona-auctio.all.html

IgorS,

If you have a chance to take images from the edge of 1886 ruble would be great

Rarenum

Can you tell me your opinion on this 1712 half rouble?

It seams to be struck with the same pair of dies as Heritage Auction 3012, august 2010, lot 21764, described as novodel.

http://coins.ha.com/itm/russia/russia-peter-i-novodel-poltina-1-2-rouble-1712-/a/3010-21764.s#57515751425

 

 

Coin from your images not original.

Thanks alexbg2 and squirrel,

Coin is better then images and not possible to find for reasonable price and I have better one .I'm not sure if it ex. Markov coin ,purchasing about 10 years ago.

Rarenum.

Thanks Rarenum,

 

Frankly I don't like that "regular" patina, with the only darker places between letters and small details. Looks like cleaning.

When looking on larger pictures I got from the seller it looks much worse than mount removed, it has signs of a repaired hole.

One letter is also changed incorrectly (?) - A instead of K. Planned to bid it but now I'm going to pass ...

 

 

Agree with you,I see all problem before and just confirm with better images.

 

You can find original variety in M.Diakov catalog (2000) page 197 #31 .

 

Rarenum

Hello,

 

What's your opinion on this coin? Genuine?

 

http://allegro.pl/show_item.php?item=4130523596&msg=Tw%C3%B3j+e-mail+zosta%C5%82+wys%C5%82any.&msgtoken=048a25b10f8bf5405c1e387864ffa85323220a1444b540a86acf77d00be2ff62

Hello Ultra,

 

Looks like coin harshly cleaned original with some problems.

If you can received better images I recommend review more details.First mount was removed or not and second if details was re-engraved .

Rarenum

Not to forget the fakes becoming genuine once graded

Sigi

 

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We all hope for the best

About 5 years ago I have interesting experience with PCGS and NGC company's. First I send 7 coins(5 kopecks silver of 19th century)to PCGS and received back 2-Proof and 5-Mint State. Second I break 5 holders(MS) and send coins to NGC and received 4(PF) and 1(MS).

I was trying to grade 7 coins as Proof and final result was 6 Proof and 1 Mint State.My point is with all respect to grading company's we should look inside the holder and collect coins ,not the numbers on the holder.Collectors ,dealers,graders can have different opinion according on knowledge and experience.

Rarenum

Proof, like Frodo's ring can only be unmade by the fires of Mount Doom.

 

....To completely remove proof surfaces you need to send the coin with some high grade sand paper, or circulate it to about 'fine' grade level. Both scenarios are rather unlikely if you ask me. In any other case, you can always recognize the type of strike of a particular coin. Sometimes one cannot make a decision just by looking at pictures, you need the actual coin to ascertain.

Would be very interesting experience if some body send to grading company without breaking the slab and company change from MS to PF.

 

 

 

 

 

Leading Bolton technology was used for Business and Proof .Technological process is different with additional steps and improving product final results for the period of the time in some cases Proof destroyed and hard or not possible to identified .

I would be happy if grading company will start grade as you speak and separate PF from MS, but today we have no better competitors in US and finally we have coins graded in MS with different “Technological process”.

As you know I newer grade coins from my collection if not decide to sell. Since I started dealing with world coins is different, large number of collectors and dealers around the world buying with conference graded coins and I should see the same way as leading grading company. NGC can reach us only if spend more money for major references and hired Professional in Russian Numismatics "old school" for full time and we both know it is not possible today.One good point I see today they starting collect images in archives.Would be great if in addition add edge images for graded coins .

Well, we all have opinions and that's what makes things interesting. I will state my understanding.There were multiple styles in making Proof coins around the world. In US, for example, there were a few different Proof coin styles - mirror (brilliant), satin, matte, sand blasting. But, what separates Proof coin from regular business strike is not "brushed special finish", but the entire process. There were carefully prepared dies polished to a mirror like finish, planchets were also specially prepared. Each coin was struck slowly and carefully, sometimes more than once to have full details of the design. As a result, these Proof coins have multiple Proof characteristics, not just the mirror like fields and edge and frosty reliefs of the design. One has to also look for squared-off rims and such. And just because the Proof coin displays the signs of wear or cleaning, it does not make it non Proof. For example, you can see NGC grading coins as PF-58 or lower.

Agree about world coins with different “Proof characteristics”. And not possible to compare Russian with Haiti , Philippines …

For Russian silver Proof coins of 19^th and 20^th century all the time with mirror (Proof) finished .One of the old fashion way to identified Russian Proof coin we can read newspaper reflects in the coin from 3+ centimeters distance .

In some cases lower Grade (PF-58) not because mint ” PROOF IMPAIRED” techniques .For example I had previously experience not agree with NGC about one memorial rouble of 19^th century .Send to NGC 3 times.1^st Grade MS60,2^nd-MS61,3^rd-PF58 .Coin with light hairlines and old cabinet toning. I’m sure if I removed the toning I could get better grade but it is different case.

Finally we find something we are not agree after “short time” collecting

I did not think Proof coin could become non Proof, but only impaired Proof.

Hi IgorS,

As you know for Proof used the same coins as for regular(business ) struck, just brushed special finished . If surfaces was removed ,for example coin accidently get in circulation or cleaned … we can’t say it is Impaired Proof coin if 20% or 10% of the proof coin remain. Possible to described Proof like surfaces remain on the edge or... But I’m not agree with description ” PROOF IMPAIRED” in conditions if surfaces was removed for last couple hundred years no by mint. For example 25 kopecks from Heritage.

It is just my opinion

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Russian-5-Rubley-Rouble-coin-Czar-Alexander-III-Dated-1888-/181370844717?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item2a3a8b762d

 

 

He is very explicit in that you are not supposed to leave a negative feedback, when you get this fake and he will refuse a return. Love it.

Funny seller from Brooklyn.

Good candidate in the future as a client for you

 

By photos, it does not look like proof.

I can see some details remain from original struck Proof coin, if some body see the edge of the coin it could be more helpful info. Not Proof any more because was keeping not safe as should be.

Rarenum

About 8 years back I sold most of my 25 kopecks series of 19th century included 1827 wings down Proof 66 ,was not able to find any better for long time.

I recently came across a nice example. Almost as struck. I just need to take a good picture of it.

Thanks Igor,

Looking for brown with cabinet toning.

Rarenum

 

This particular coin was condemned in Russia.

It was private discussion in Russia?

Last 10 kopecks in VF condition I sold 10 times less from listed price .