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Strange background elements on a 1771 5 kopeeks


alexbq2

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Here's another pyatak from Ekaterinburg. The reverse has some elements in the background. I can't quite figure out where they came from, or what they mean. The lump of metal along the scepter looks like the die had a large chip in it, but the rest? If this is an overstrike what could be the host? I detect slight elements of a faint die clash, but this would not explain the strange shape above the orb.

 

I'm at a loss. Hopefully, somebody here can figure it out!

1771piatak.jpg

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Here's another pyatak from Ekaterinburg. The reverse has some elements in the background. I can't quite figure out where they came from, or what they mean. The lump of metal along the scepter looks like the die had a large chip in it, but the rest? If this is an overstrike what could be the host? I detect slight elements of a faint die clash, but this would not explain the strange shape above the orb.

 

I'm at a loss. Hopefully, somebody here can figure it out!

Hi, could you show the other side of the coin? I would very much like to compare both sides. :ninja: Thanks, Sigi

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Tank you for your replies GX and Sigi.

 

Here's the other side. Imho nothing particularly out of the ordinary with it. There's a well know 70/71 overdate, something like an ugly die crack, and something curious on the crown.

 

The eagle side certainly has evidence of a die clash, but there's something else as well. It does look like the flan had some design on it?! Or maybe there was some kind of a weird double die clash, where elements of the eagle design left imprints on the other die, and then second die clash copied the protruding imprint of the orb (I think I see something that kinda looks like an incuse imprint of the orb to the left of the actual orb) and some other stuff back to the eagle die?! I'm not sure that is physically possible though :ninja:

1771piatakOD.jpg

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Tank you for your replies GX and Sigi.

 

Here's the other side. Imho nothing particularly out of the ordinary with it. There's a well know 70/71 overdate, something like an ugly die crack, and something curious on the crown.

 

The eagle side certainly has evidence of a die clash, but there's something else as well. It does look like the flan had some design on it?! Or maybe there was some kind of a weird double die clash, where elements of the eagle design left imprints on the other die, and then second die clash copied the protruding imprint of the orb (I think I see something that kinda looks like an incuse imprint of the orb to the left of the actual orb) and some other stuff back to the eagle die?! I'm not sure that is physically possible though :ninja:

I mirrored the date side and combined the two pictures, but I did not get very far. I think it is the upper inner bow of the monogram, of the "E" that shows from the die clash,

I can't offer an explanation for the other irregularities other than speculate on a worn out eagle side die.

Maybe gxseries can find more?? Sigi

1771kop5sl1.jpg

By sigistenz

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Good idea! I will play with my paint.net tonight.

 

Based on visual examination I am moving away from some kind of an undercoin theory, as there are no signs of any on the obverse. It could still be some malformed planchet, but I think there’s some faint evidence of support for the inverse die clash theory.

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It's just a die clash nothing else, I've got it to match!

 

I outlined the incuse imprints that I could see in red, and the raised parts I painted blue. Added a bit transparency to the top image so that you can see painted parts through it, and this is what I got:

I don't quite follow, will have to get me paint.net, which is freeware as I see. Congratulations to you, seems you have resolved the problem. Sigi

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