RW Julian Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 The following coin is rather interesting: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=290032222597 1) The same seller sold a virtually identical 1769 5 roubles in May 2006 on eBay. 2) If one looks carefully at the present offering, there are actually two different coins illustrated and both have the same exact nick on the neck. The coin offered in May also had this same nick in the same spot. 3) Both coins (May and September) came from an "estate" sale and the seller knows nothing about these coins. 4) The seller recently sold a 1748 ducat for $1200+ and also sold an almost identical piece in March 2006. Both were from an estate and both have a scratch at the same point. In the case of the 1748 ducat the seller claimed that he did not know the denomination but did know the fineness! RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 The following coin is rather interesting: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=290032222597 1) The same seller sold a virtually identical 1769 5 roubles in May 2006 on eBay. 2) If one looks carefully at the present offering, there are actually two different coins illustrated and both have the same exact nick on the neck. The coin offered in May also had this same nick in the same spot. 3) Both coins (May and September) came from an "estate" sale and the seller knows nothing about these coins. 4) The seller recently sold a 1748 ducat for $1200+ and also sold an almost identical piece in March 2006. Both were from an estate and both have a scratch at the same point. In the case of the 1748 ducat the seller claimed that he did not know the denomination but did know the fineness! RWJ I remember this too. Possibly it did not sell back then. Only do not know, why you think there are two different coins? For me it looks as a single coin pictured under different light conditions (but may be I missed something). Harshly cleaned. Something does not look right with the coin. Would avoid in any case, too many things are suspicious, and who wants an expensive cleaned coin anyway. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Both coins pictured on eBay are definite fakes even without consideration of previous sales of the same in May. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted September 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I remeber this too. Possibly it did not sell back then. Only do not know, why you think there are two different coins? For me it looks as a single coin pictured under different light conditions (but may be I missed something). Harshly cleaned. Would avoid in any case, too many things are suspicious, and who wants an expensive cleaned coin anyway. WCO Although there are several places to see differences, the easiest is the cross atop the crown. On one coin it is a blob but clear on the other. With respect to the May sale, I might note that I downloaded and retained the illustration; it is clearly a third coin. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Although there are several places to see differences, the easiest is the cross atop the crown. On one coin it is a blob but clear on the other. With respect to the May sale, I might note that I downloaded and retained the illustration; it is clearly a third coin. RWJ I see. Interesting. And both "coins" have the same looking scratches from "9" of date and to the left of "1" of date. Even more interesting. May be Photoshop edited pictures? Since you claim that the seller has several "coins" to sell it definetely shows that he is aware of their "origin". Looks like fraud to me now. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Both coins pictured on eBay are definite fakes even without consideration of previous sales of the same in May. Timofei, I agree. The style just looks "wrong". I think these are modern counterfeits. Note that the seller, in addition to claiming ignorance of what he sells, says "The sale is final.". That is a disturbing combination. Every reputable coin dealer that I know of allows returns if the customer is not satisfied and especially if there is doubt about authenticity. BTW, welcome to CoinPeople! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timofei Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 BTW, welcome to CoinPeople! Thanks for your welcome! Luster is dull, or better said no mint luster is present at all, as the coin was never minted - it was 'high pressure' cast. Discoloration on high points on the second image is artificial, on the first is absent. "Abrasive cleaning" mentioned already usually is done on these cast items to hide imperfections and hinder the characteristic dull luster. The edge is backcut by hand. The curved relief of the lettering and images are also very particular to these series. As to die correspondence, I did not bother to look at the original but I am sure it is different in all points. In Moscow these sell at about 300-900 US. This is very 'easy' fake to note so I am not affraid to speak up these points even if counterfeiters read this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisenish Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Timofei, I agree. The style just looks "wrong". I think these are modern counterfeits. Note that the seller, in addition to claiming ignorance of what he sells, says "The sale is final.". That is a disturbing combination. Every reputable coin dealer that I know of allows returns if the customer is not satisfied and especially if there is doubt about authenticity. BTW, welcome to CoinPeople! I agree to Timofei and grivna1726, This is a modern counterfeit, even not similar to genuine coins. For such a coin, it takes me usually 1.5-2 seconds before closing the browser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted September 28, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 28, 2006 The "coin" brought $910 with a little help, perhaps, from shill bidding. One has to wonder how long it will be before the "lucky" buyer gets the bad news from a legitimate dealer. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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