gxseries Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Yes I know they are both 1731. But there is something unusual with both of them. The one on the right is most likely a die clash. What about the one on the left? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Yes I know they are both 1731. But there is something unusual with both of them. The one on the right is most likely a die clash. What about the one on the left? The one on the left appears to be overstruck on the rare kopeck type with the denomination inside the double rectangle, struck in 1724, 1726 and 1727. Unfortunately, I can see no trace of the date of the undertype. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisenish Posted April 2, 2007 Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Yes I know they are both 1731. But there is something unusual with both of them. The one on the right is most likely a die clash. What about the one on the left? Congratulations!!! The left coin is a overstruck on the very rare kopek 1724. BTW, This coin was struck only 1724, and not 1724, 1726 and 1727. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted April 2, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 2, 2007 Well done Kisenish, would you happen to know if this was minted in up-up or up-down alignment? Coins from that era seemed to be rather confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Congratulations!!! The left coin is a overstruck on the very rare kopek 1724. BTW, This coin was struck only 1724, and not 1724, 1726 and 1727. You are correct for the 1727. I was thinking of the 1727 polushka with value in double rectangles. But I am not mistaken about the 1726 date. Here's the illustration taken from GM (#192, plate XIV-21). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted April 3, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Grivina, what are my chances of getting a 1726 kopek? That is so rare that either I have crazy luck that I'm going to face a drought of luck in the next few years or it just doesn't happen Chances are that I don't think so, as the only illustration of the 1726 kopek from Uzdenikov show that the text "kopek" is slanting downwards which makes me pretty sure that it's a 1724 kopek. The other question is, what is the deal with this 1724 kopek?! Did it actually circulate??? I can't believe this is one notorious coin that proved to be a real pain in the neck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 Grivina, what are my chances of getting a 1726 kopek? That is so rare that either I have crazy luck that I'm going to face a drought of luck in the next few years or it just doesn't happen Chances are that I don't think so, as the only illustration of the 1726 kopek from Uzdenikov show that the text "kopek" is slanting downwards which makes me pretty sure that it's a 1724 kopek. The other question is, what is the deal with this 1724 kopek?! Did it actually circulate??? I can't believe this is one notorious coin that proved to be a real pain in the neck I'm not sure of the story of the 1726 kopeck. It was struck to the same standard as the 1724 (~4 grams). The 1726 is extremely rare. I don't know why. Maybe it was just a pattern? Or maybe they were nearly all melted or overstruck? There is no "rare" or "assez rare" comment in the French edition of GM, but this probably an oversight. The 1726 kopeck was missing from the 1932 Hess sale (which featured one great rarity after another), so that should be an indication of extreme rarity. GM mentions a different die variety of the 1726 in the Tolstoi collection, so that means that at least 2 different sets of dies were used. The fact that there was more than one set of dies argues against pattern status and suggests that the coin was originally struck in quantity. The question then is, where did they all go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kisenish Posted April 3, 2007 Report Share Posted April 3, 2007 I'm not sure of the story of the 1726 kopeck. It was struck to the same standard as the 1724 (~4 grams). The 1726 is extremely rare. I don't know why. Maybe it was just a pattern? I think, 1726 kopek is a pattern coin, that's why I did not count it As far as I know, only 1724 kopeks were struck for circulation . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted April 5, 2007 Report Share Posted April 5, 2007 I think, 1726 kopek is a pattern coin, that's why I did not count it As far as I know, only 1724 kopeks were struck for circulation . 1724. I also have a Denga showing the same KO in the box. I'll try to provide a photo. Steve OK...there we go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted April 7, 2007 Report Share Posted April 7, 2007 1724. I also have a Denga showing the same KO in the box. I'll try to provide a photo. Steve OK...there we go Forgot to mention..this Denga is 1734. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Forgot to mention..this Denga is 1734. That's a great type coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted April 8, 2007 Author Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Wow thanks for sharing Steve. Would you happen to have the reverse image too or the overstrucked feature overwhelmed the 1724 portrait like mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Wow thanks for sharing Steve. Would you happen to have the reverse image too or the overstrucked feature overwhelmed the 1724 portrait like mine? Here we go: There isn't too much to see of the undercoin on this side, though with some work it might be possible. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 You are correct for the 1727. I was thinking of the 1727 polushka with value in double rectangles. But I am not mistaken about the 1726 date. Here's the illustration taken from GM (#192, plate XIV-21). 1726 kopek was offered for sale twice - 1959 Munzen und Madaillen Basel, and in Brekke collection sale by World Wide Coins of California. Interestingly enough, both coin reside in the same private collection. Here is a picture of 1724 kopek. They were available for a patient collector and probably still are. It is a question of money. A few thousand dollars will get you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bill Posted April 8, 2007 Report Share Posted April 8, 2007 Interesting discussion even though I don't collect Russian. Thanks guys. I like following your posts. There is always something new to learn and neat coins to admire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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