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Armen

1825 Constantine one ruble silver

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hello i just inherited  a 1825 Constantine one ruble silver coin after my father passed away he had bought the coin in 1973 in russia and when we moved to the states in 1979 he brought it with him, I know my father was in contact with Mr. Spaski in Leningrad Mr. Spaski wrote the book About this coin and i know my father tried to Authenticate this coin but he got no where, no one could tell him if it was a fake i need help if anyone knows anything please contact me    747-257-9595 Thank you  

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A-ha, and now you want to sell it, right?

 

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This could be a fascinating missing link in history!

Did your father buy this from a little old Russian lady by the name of Anastasia Nikolaevna?

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i dont know the name of the person my father bought it from all i know he bought it in 1972 or 1973 in russia and paid $25,000usd

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my coin has some wrighting on the edge of it but i cant make it out its like some numbers and letters 

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Very peculiar. Our sentiments and suspicions are understandable here. There are a lot of fakes going around, and with the time situation is only getting worse. You may need to take coin to one of the Auction houses for expertise when the COVID19 situation is under control. I am not an expert in silver Constatine I roubles by any account, but I am actually impressed by it. It looks genuine to me. If it will be confirmed as genuine, it may bring you good money would you sell it at a proper auction house. See here: https://www.m-dv.ru/en/catalog/id,4677/prohod.html

Looking through the pictures that I could access in acsearch.info and on m-dv.ru,, it is the most interesting and beautiful coin on a picture I've ever seen of this type. It is strikingly similar to the very coin sold in 1965 for $41,000.00 and looks proper:

p_5784cc5f7c11e.jpg

896243155_coin2.jpg.5b3b8eddb5a27278ca04

I may show it on Russian speaking site for a second opinion.

By the way, how much does it weigh?

I wish you good luck!

Interesting to hear from people who actually had an opportunity to study some of these coins at some point of time...

PS: There were 3 publications on this rouble in French and German, which I cannot read, but keep in my collection:

Fuchs - 1984
1984 Fuchs on Constantin Ruble
Constantin Ruble

courtesy of Mr. V. Arefiev

 

Köhne - 1879
Köhne - 1879 - extract from Belgian Jornal of Numismatics on Constantin Rouble
extract from Belgian Jornal of Numismatics on Constantin Rouble

courtesy of Mr. V. Arefiev

 

Troubetzkoy - 1873
VA Trubetskoy - 1825 - Rouble de Constantin
Rouble de Constantin

courtesy of Mr. V. Arefiev

 

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This is an original rouble from Hermitage:

show_file.php?fid=1524775

The verdict is that your coin is similar (if not the same) to the one from the collection of U. Arslan from New Hollywood which is described in the literature as a counterfeit rouble.

show_file.php?fid=1524815

show_file.php?fid=1524814

show_file.php?fid=1524928

Here is it's edge inscription:

show_file.php?fid=1524910

I understand these pics are from this publication that includes Spasski's article on "New about Constantine Rouble 1825 and its counterfeits" and the pictures, I assume, in the article are taken from the photographs you supplied above:

show_file.php?fid=1524678

Russian forum link, for more information (if you read Russian): https://www.staraya-moneta.ru/forum/messages/forum2/topic276529/message3003990/#message3003990

If my assumption is correct and that it is the same coin, I believe if you sell it as an antique counterfeit rouble from Arslan's collection, known as a Hollywood Constantine rouble, well described and published in Spasski's article, and if you would include the original photographs taken for Spasski publication in the auction, it will still bring you some surprising money.

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Did you keep the correspondence with Spasski? If you care to share that may shed additional light. 

Can you weigh it again so you know for sure? 

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after my father pased away i got his briefcase with all the pics and letters but none from Mr. Spassky all my father would tell me that he was always in contact with him back in the day i dont know how he was talking to Mr. Spassky. the coin is 20.73gr and 35 mm                           

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The matter turned out most exciting!!!!

I do not have anything to contribute to the coin. However in Eugene's 1st literature citation "Fuchs 1984" page 212 is missing. Maybe Eugene left it out by mistake? If page 212 is missing in Eugene's copy, I would gladly add its photocopy here.  Excellent job, Eugene! :art:

Sigi

 

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Hi Sigi, 

I only have an electronic version of Fuchs publication. Didn't realise that one page was missing. Would be happy to add it if you'd share. Thank you,! 

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Armen, thank you for additional information and for showing this interesting coin. Forgive me for getting too excited and for missing to say one important thing. Please accept our condolences for you loss. 

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well i have sent the coin to NGC waiting to see what the results will be  

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Well I just got the 1825 Constantine one ruble back from NGC and they’re saying it is not genuine which I don’t agree with them if they couldn’t authenticate this coin In Leningrad I don’t know anybody that could authenticated or say it’s not genuine Any suggestions on what else I can do. My next move is Sending the coin to PCGS and let me see what they’re going to say and if it is not a genuine is there any auction houses that will auction it off

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I would be surprised if it was othewise with NGC. You can expect the same with PCGS.

I can tell you that if you will put it in the plastic case, it will be more difficult to sell, as there will be no way for the buyer to examine the coin and it would have to say something like "antiquarian forgery" on the slab. Even if it was 100% genuine and exactly as the one in the Hermitage in St. Petersburg, people would be less likely to bid with their money for something one cannot pass their own opinion of authenticity on, trusting grading authority to do that instead. The reason for that is that grading companies have made numerous mistakes, including slabbing fakes as genuine coins. So, I would strongly advise against slabbing.

I can sympathize with your quest for authenticating it as a genuine coin. You will not succeed. The coin that you have in hand has already been authenticated by Spasski and included in his article as a Hollywood counterfeit, as I mentioned above. This doesn't mean that this counterfeit has no value. I'll repeat what I've said above. If my assumption is correct and it is the same coin, that Spasski has pictured in his article, naming it as a Hollywood counterfeit, due to location in New Hollywood, I believe if you sell it at the auction (such as Kunker, Sincona, Markov, etc.), as an "antiquarian forgery Constantin rouble" brought to USA from Soviet Russia in 1973, known as a Hollywood Constantine rouble (possibly from Arslan's collection [that hasn't been confirmed by you yet]), well described and published in Spasski's article, with the original photographs taken for Spasski's publication, it will still bring you some surprising money. 

The other known antiquarian forgeries that went through the auctions "officially" have plain edge, so your coin is kind of rarer than most of them:

https://www.m-dv.ru/en/catalog/id,4679/prohod.html

The other coins that were assumed kind of authentic, have either plain edge or edge with inscription:

https://www.m-dv.ru/en/catalog/id,4676/prohod.html

https://www.m-dv.ru/en/catalog/id,4677/prohod.html

However, most of the coins in the "authentic" list are also considered to be counterfeits nowadays.

 

 

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Thank you for the reply i came across some paper this the same coin from Arslan's collection i found out that my father had registered this coin with ANA in Colorado so this is the North Hollywood Constantine from Arslan's collection I don't read Russian that's why i haven't read Spassky's book  I have emailed Dimitry Markov about this coin here is his letter to me. I just don't know what  else i can do at this point i dont think Dimitry Markov will put it in his auctions 

Armen,

Thanks for the information. Very interesting!

Ruble of Constantine - the most famous and expensive Russian coin. On it is written a lot of books, articles, the history of each copy is well known. It is known since the 19th century which is or was. Names of collectors and museums. New (or unknown) of copies foreseen. Fake a lot different.

I do not want and do not have the right to these words puts a coin into question. But this is such a case that the host must share all known information, such as correspondence with Spassky.

Please, I am ready to talk on the phone, but this conversation came to nothing lead. Only the specific information and documents. It is also well uidet photo coins including milling.

Best regards, Dmitry

 

 

dmitry Markov
Dmitry Markov Coins & Medals
PO Box 950
New York, NY 10272, USA
Ph .: 908 / 470-2828
Fax: 908 / 470-0088

www.TheNewYorkSale.com
www.DmitryMarkov.com
-mail an e: markov@banet.net
Phone: 1-908-470-2828
FAX: 1-908-470-0088

 

 

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this is the envelope i found dating back to 02/27/1985 i'am assuming it was to Mr. Spasskii because the photo's were in that envelop it is from the Hermitage in Leningrad for some reason i can not upload the picture  

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