RARENUM Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 1765 Siberia coin sold for 22k. Whch to me means split opinions, but leaning towards novodel. Some body belived in story. The edge is plain, unless I am somehow mistaken. I did look at the coin. You didn't get red pass? I hope you enjoy your vacation Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted October 22, 2014 Author Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 I did get the red pass. Did not even have to ask for it. Just had no use for it. The vacation was super! Provence is a great place to visit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RARENUM Posted October 22, 2014 Report Share Posted October 22, 2014 You save a lot of money not using red pass:).Very nice I loved vacations in Europe,should schedule next year instead my wife preference (Islands) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMIS Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 No show and tell here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 I wasn't seriously after any coins the last round, so have nothing to show. Still waiting if anyone will show their coins after they get them from Sincona. Guess it takes time to send them out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsmike Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Hi all; I'm new here. I won 4 lots in Sincona 19. Three attached here. One in the next post. -mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsmike Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Here's the other one. -mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Very good! Congrats!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 10, 2014 Report Share Posted November 10, 2014 Very nice overstrikes, particularly the kopeck 1755. I heavily understimated my bids... Congratulations!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marsmike Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 Thanks for your nice comments. They were a bit more expensive than I expected. I won about 1/3 of the lots I bid. Did anyone else here win anything? -mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted November 11, 2014 Report Share Posted November 11, 2014 I like the 4 kopek - very very unusual overstrike feature! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMIS Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Had all the intention of going to Switzerland. Ended up on a different continent instead................Will be feeding dealers again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marv Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Not to worry, you will be able to buy many coins from this sale at a discounted price later. I wonder why you say this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I wonder why you say this? Because that is what happened with a lot of coins from the previous parts... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 A lot of coins (not all, by all counts) were traded later at different auctions and sold by shops. The shop price is a little higher than Sincona's, but coins sits there and cannot find a new home for a long time. The auctioned coins manage to sell, but mostly with lower prices (the other auctions don't attract as many buyers as Sincona, that not just an auction, but a numismatic celebration of the year), consequently price is much lower... If you are after a unique coin, don't sit on it and bid at Sincona, who knows if it will be offered later or added to some esteem collection for years to come? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMIS Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I noticed another interesting thing: if a coin from Sincona gets a higher grade from the grading company than the one stated by Sincona, that coin is re-sold for a lot more, but if the grade is same or lower, price declines dramatically. The new buyers seem to be more interested in the numeric grade of the coin than the coin itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 Commercialized industry for investing money... sad as it is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMIS Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 That too. What I would really like to accentuate is that people trust the perceived authority, rather than their own eyes. Say, Sincona (Kuenker, etc.) stated the grade as UNC. 100+ people examined the coin and agreed on the grade. Hence the realized auction price of $2,000 (for example). The lucky new owner sends the coin to NGC/PCGS just to find out that the coin is no longer UNC, but AU58. Now that same 100+ people agree that the price should be $1,000. Why? Just because some expert said it is AU58 and not MS60. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 The "lucky" owner can always break the slab. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
extant4cell Posted November 26, 2014 Report Share Posted November 26, 2014 I have little care for a grade on plastic box. Grading is a subjective thing. I care for how coin looks. That's why I have little simpaphy for investors that loose money, and have no envy for those who are lucky to get higher grades. It matters not to me. Apart, that once the coins is undergraded I can buy it cheapper if I like its look. So someones misfortune becomes my luck... I am obviously happier to pay less for a better coin. But for me slabbing of coins is a waste of money, for others - business, and for some others - authority they trust. Some collect slabs. It's a fact of life that I simply accept and don't stress over anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 If one looks into grading standards, then it becomes apparent that MS 60 is a horrible grade for an UNC coin - terrible eye appeal, bad color, many bag marks, etc. Where AU58 could be a beautiful coin, but with just slight rubbing to the highest points of the design. Real investor should not touch anything below MS64. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMIS Posted November 27, 2014 Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Agree with assessment of AU58 and MS60 coins. My example was purely hypothetical to illustrate why some ex-Sincona coins sell for less in the secondary market. Real investor should not touch anything below MS64. I like high grade coins as well, but I am not sure I would entirely agree with this statement. If you study coin prices for the past five years, you would notice that in gradonomics it is the investor who bought and slabbed a raw coin that made the most money, not the investor who bought an already slabbed coin. If I were an investor, I would buy coins (like any other asset) with intrinsic value greater than the current market prices. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted November 27, 2014 Author Report Share Posted November 27, 2014 Real investor does not know how to grade a raw coin. Though there are some that could, but very few. They either come from numismatic family or worked in the numismatic trade for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted March 6, 2015 Author Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Auctions 19-21 of Sincona AG Zurich What will happen in the third auction of the fantastic SinconaCollection (auction 19)? Will the sanctions against Russia spoil the collectors’ fun? Will they buy less because the rouble has weakened? Will the prices become weaker or fall dramatically? Well, one can answer the last three questions with a categorical NO; and the first question with: Once again it was a superlative auction sale. The number of Russian clients that came to the viewing on Sunday led to the assumption that there was great interest for the sale. This was also noticeable in the minutes before the sale when the auction room began to fill with the most important dealers and buyers. The auctioneer as well as the public were happy when the first lot – a denga from the year 1700 climbed from CHF 150.- to CHF 3’200,-. No, 2 a small 5 kopeck piece from 1701, estimated at CHF 1200.- jumped to CHF 1’200.-. Nr. 3 apoltina 1701 – fetched about 10 times the estimate CHF 4’400 with CHF 42’000.-. The ban was now broken. No. 6, a not so attractive but rare polupoltinnik of 1703 exploded in price from CHF 500.- to CHF 46’000.-. But let us look at the really expensive coins. Lot 418, a pattern rouble from the year 1807 in Proof reached CHF 1,300,000.-(estimate CHF 50’000.-).De second item in the million category was lot 880, a pattern rouble from the year 1886. This rouble also cost CHF 1’300’000.-. It was estimated at CHF 80’000.- Ten lots fetched results in six digit figures.. Especially noteworthy was lot 222, un unedited kopeck 1757 of the “baroque type”. Bernhard Brekke, the author of the standard book about Russian vopper coinage predicted the appearance of such a coin. The records of the St. Petersburg mint show a mintage of such pieces in value of 6200 roubles. But the coin has never ever appeared anywhere before. Now this unique piece was in the Sincona Collection. Estimated at CHF 5’000.-, it was knocked down for CHF 130’000.- after a heavy bidding match. A family rouble of 1835 sold for CHF 550’000.-. The coin shows Czar Nicholas I on the obverse and his spouse and 7 children on the reverse. This is a classic rarity of Russian numismatics and the rarest variety of this emission. It was modelled after a Bavarian history taler of 1828 “Blessing of Heaven”. One needs to download the Sincona prices realised list and compare it to the catalogue in order to really appreciate the astounding results. It is of special interest that many minor coins in Proof or best quality reached high prices. In all, the Russian coins, including a group from other consignations, over 11 million Swiss Francs. Auction 20, the general sale, attained good prices. An Egyptian large gold medal (lot 2261) fetched CHF 42’000.-, slightly over the estimate. A specially beautiful taler 1696 ofHenneberg sold for CHF 14’000.- on the telephone. The estimate was CHF 7’000.-. The 100 perpera 1910 of Montenegro (lot 3072) went for CHF 31’000.- (15’000). The special collection of Swiss coins realised extraordinary prices. The first piece (lot 3277) an unusually beautiful batzen of 1808 from Aargau climbed after heavy bidding from an estimate of CHF 150.- to CHF 1’000.-. A batzen of Bern from 1774 (lot 3341) realized CHF 1’300.- (400.-). Lot 3491, apenny of of the Abbey of St. Gallen n. d. (1791) brought CHF 2’600.-. A dealer commented: “These are Russian prices”. In all the collection of Swiss coins fetched over CHF 145’000.- Auction 21 Banknotes – was postponed to May 2015. A technical breakdown made bidding over internet for the numerous registered clients impossible. The owner of SinconaAG, Jürg Richter, excused himself to the public in the auction room and reimbursed them generously for their futile attendance. In all, the auctions realised over 12 million Swiss Francs. The fourth part of this unbelievable collection of Russian coins will come next year. This last “Sincona Collection” catalogue will be awaited with great anticipation and some “sadness”. It is the end of a collection of a century. Lutz Neumann-Lysloff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexbq2 Posted March 6, 2015 Report Share Posted March 6, 2015 Thanks for posting! Although, the Sincona 19 sale, if the memory serves me right, took place before the rouble took a nose dive. I'm curious to see what happens in the Part 4 of the Sincona sale. My impression of the last New York sale was that it was less than dazzling. I am curious to hear other opinions. At the same time, I do not see any perceivable drop in prices on eBay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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