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Poor Authentication of Straits 1903 Raised B???

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Figure 1. Straits 1903 "Raised B"

1903RaisedB1_zps03322c2e.jpg

 

Figure 2. "Raised B" ???? Worn off Cross

1903IncusedB1_zps7fbb4102.jpg

 

Figure 3. Slab coin graded MS63 (Serial Numbers blanked)

 

1012copycopy_zpsffb8fc31.jpg

 

 

I was very excited when I recently bought a Straits Settlement 1903 King Edward VII 1 Dollar Silver. Graded MS63 "Raised B" However upon receiving it and verifying it, to my disappointment it was not a "Raised B". To me an "Incused B"

 

Attached 2 images for cross reference.

One image of the coin received authenticated MS63. Serial Numbers blanked without prejudice.

 

Grading the coin at MS63 is serious high mark, and there should not be any wear or minimal. But contrary-to that, the high point showing the "Raised B" which should be visible is completely worn down making it not visible or verifiable.

 

There are 2 distinct markings to look for when authenticating the coin as a "Raised B" type against the "Incused B"

  1. The unmistaken "Raised B" on the crown that stands out
  2. A dot after the DES below bust, which is the marking the artist's initials (George de Saulles)

No other known markings or points have surfaced to help in verifying the coin other than the above. If there is, can someone help out here? It would be a great help.

 

I would have gladly accepted the coin if the "Raised B" marking was visible without the dot, or vice versa.

 

If the above are the only verifying marks, how can such wrong authentication be made? These mistakes will be costly to the buyers having them ending up with a wrong coin 5 times more expensive. The seller is not to be blamed unless one is aware of it.

 

Feedbacks great appreciated.

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What's the value difference between raised and incused? Enough of a difference that folks in the East would try to forge it?

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The fact that the coin in the holder does not appear to be mint state should automatically make bells and whistles go off. On a well worn coin, the raised B (and marker below the bust) would not be detectable. The incused mintmark would be evident, however, even with the amount of wear apparent on the coin you have shown.

 

I question the authenticity of the NGC slab itself. Seeing the serial numbers would be a big help. The two points on the slab itself that raise questions are the font (specifically the numerals) and the edge weld.

 

I would assume you probably "got a deal" on this one for just under $1,000US. At that price, I would consider sending it in to NGC to validate the holder's authenticity. Other things make me think that the coin itself may not be genuine. Photos can be decieving, but those dentacles are glaringly troublesome.

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1011_zpsa95a18f4.jpg

 

Attached is the slab with the serial numbers. The coin is genuine, however not a "Raised B" and I paid $2000+ for the it. If it was a " "Raised B" it would be a steal.

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Here is another one of the Raised "B" on the eBay. I am not sure if it is authentic slab or no slab, but you may be interested.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Straits-Settlements-1903-B-Raised-B-One-Dollar-PCGS-AU55-Silver-Coin-Rare-/261208597274?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item3cd13ee31a#ht_633wt_1161

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Thanks.

 

I have seen it earlier. Could not make it out as to whether it is a Raised "B". The wear is very high similar to the one I posted above. Even the dot near the artist signature is not verifiable. Not worth the risk buying it and sending back if it is not.

 

Importantly at the least the Raised "B" must be prominent.

 

Nice lots of coins in your collection.

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Came across a fine example of a Kg Edward V 1903 $1 Raised "B". I blanked the certificate numbers since it is not mine. This will make a good comparison to the one I posted earlier which was questionable. You will be able to see the Raised "B" clearly in the cross and the dot next to the artist signature. Note, both certified MS63.

This piece sold for approx. $4,300.00

 

I think a few of you guys may have faced such problems. After buying and holding it in your hands to find the description or authentication wrong.

 

1903RaisedBOR_zps26fefe57.jpg

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No. This coin was not the one listed on eBay.

This is an actual "Raised B". The "B" is distinct together with the dot next to the signature. If look carefully, you will see it.

The image posted is a copy on a lower resolution.

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No. This coin was not the one listed on eBay.

This is an actual "Raised B". The "B" is distinct together with the dot next to the signature. If look carefully, you will see it.

The image posted is a copy on a lower resolution.

Dear Sidney, Sorry I am not referring to you picture of the coin you posted dated 11 July 2013. The coin you posted is actually a RAISED B which can be found in the link http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=3393804-004. The NGC number is 3393804-004 which was auctioned in HA Jan 2012 Lot 29877 . The picture of coin I posted on 20 August 213 is a INCUSED B which was wrongly labelled by NGC as RAISED B and was auctioned in ebay item 281139993450. The link is http://www.ebay.com/itm/1903-B-Straits-Settlements-1-Rare-Raised-Mintmark-/281139993450?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=z3aXyz6iXAK3RKXHmY71LBrwksQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

For the records I download the picture again into this forum

$(KGrHqFHJBUFHJ4Y9Bd3BR0c+sghKg~~60_57.jpg

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Dear Sidney, Sorry I am not referring to you picture of the coin you posted dated 11 July 2013. The coin you posted is actually a RAISED B which can be found in the link http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=3393804-004. The NGC number is 3393804-004 which was auctioned in HA Jan 2012 Lot 29877 . The picture of coin I posted on 20 August 213 is a INCUSED B which was wrongly labelled by NGC as RAISED B and was auctioned in ebay item 281139993450. The link is http://www.ebay.com/itm/1903-B-Straits-Settlements-1-Rare-Raised-Mintmark-/281139993450?_trksid=p2047675.l2557&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&nma=true&si=z3aXyz6iXAK3RKXHmY71LBrwksQ%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

 

For the records I download the picture again into this forum

Picture No 2 of 3

$(KGrHqRHJCYFHIQ75LgtBR0c+jKEVw~~60_57.jpg

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This is an opposite case where a Raised B was WRONGLY Labelled as Incused B. Attached Straits Settlements $1 1903 RAISED B was wrongly labelled as INCUSED $1 1903 MS61 BY NGC 3067535-005 was auctioned in Mavin Auction 31 Lot 324. Coin was send for Relabelled . Go to http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=3067535-005

Further to my post above, please go to the NGC link http://www.ngccoin.com/certlookup/index.aspx?CertNumber=3067535-005

to see that the label had now been changed from INCUSED (as per enclosed picture) to RAISED B

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Attached is one of the two Raised "B" coins I managed to acquire along the way. Its getting tough adding coins into the collection with many new collectors emerging and having to pay high prices for them. It's a challenge.

 

Denomination : 1 Dollar
Year : 1903
Variety : Raised "B"
Composition : Silver .900 fine
Mintage : Unknown (Included together the "Incuse B" totaling 15,009,891 pieces)
Graded : AU53 Currently 5 pieces in record graded by NGC at AU53

 

KgEdwardVII19031DollarRaisedB31b_zps9889

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I have been following the coin with interested. However like you mentioned, the wear off on the ear was rather heavy to be graded as UNC. To me. I would put it at about AU 50 only. Image overall was poor to help evaluate the coin

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Look at this Straits Settlements $1 1903 listed in ebay

 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Straits-Settlements-Malaysia-Silver-Dollar-1903-Edward-VII-AB7-/231269988825?pt=US_World_Coins&hash=item35d8c3f9d9

 

It might be a Raised B even though I can't see the B on the crown but look like there is a "period" after the DES below the bust. Couldn't be 100% sure.

 

You can ask seller about this. But look like coin was cleaned from the east to the west which make it less diserable.

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The piece may be a "Raised B" however as mentioned not desirable. To collect one such coin, one should go for an EF grade.

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A better example of a "Raised B" coin I acquired. Missed a chance for a UNC copy.

 

Mintage : Unknown (Included together the "Incuse B" totaling 15,009,891 pieces)
Graded : AU58 - Currently 14 pieces recorded by NGC in this grade

 

SSKgEdward1903RaisedB1NGC3258114-074copy

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Another fine example of a "Raised B". Note the prominent Dot after the Artist's signature "DES"

 

AU58%203647104%20008a_zpsbxjxubwr.jpg

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Nice coin and the photo is great too. :bthumbsup:

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