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alexbq2

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All I can say, congratulations to this seller for his tactics. I watched it for a while, as I bought mine just last year and was wondering what will happen with this little beauty. He started with Buy-it-now around $6000 with best offer, had it around with no selling a few times, got people interested and now sells it with a reserve price starting from 99 cents! He is playing on people’s greed to reasonably rare coins. Not bad at all! Also, many collectors probably are interested in Russian coins but know that there are too many fakes around, but this coin is in a slab (American dream come true! Coin with a guaranty!)  I wonder if it will sell get to the reserve price or not. My wiled guess would be that the reserve price is somewhere in $4000 area… Brrr… I would never pay for this 1762 RUSSIAN PETER III 10 KOPECKS PCGS AU50 that much… It is a nice coin though… A bit nicer than 2 similar coins sold in NY sale for just under $1500...

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I don't trust that coin - slab or no slab. We've seen what the slabbers are capable of. At the time being you just have to have a coin in your hand. Naked, to examine it closely, including the edge.

See below a 10kop1762 offered at a West European auction (not in sixbid, very far from Greece). I had gone there for this coin but in hand it looked very fake. I said so and went home. It then was sold €960. Compare the little damage in field south of the scepter to the eBay coin..

And that one is slabbed... :crazy:

Sigi

fake10kop1762.jpg

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But it is the same coin - no doubt... Spent 20 min comparing... ;)

 

 

Eugene, you are right! After comparison of the 2 side by side I think now too, that it must be the very same coin. In hand in my opinion it was a galvano.

Sigi

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It's very sad... One more example of how collecting coins in slabs may backfire at you... It's not much different from buying a double sided picture of the coin - you can see it, but you can not really examine it, unless you are prepared to discover that it is a fake, that you will not be able to resell later, simply loosing your money... I don't envy the person who is going to buy it...

 

Here is a picture from PCGS, the slab is real (at least), but damn expensive!

 

26754044_large.jpg

fake10kop1762.jpg

next to your picture... ;)

 

I must say that judging only by pictures (even without seeing the edge) I would say that I like this coin... But when you pay that much, not to hold it and not to inspect it properly would be dangerous...

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Hmm. Looks like the same coin. Sigi, do you think it was a cast? Not sure how casting could account for the identical spotting??!

 

Yes it must be the same coin as can be seen from the green spotting. In my opinion the coin is a galvano.

 

 

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That makes you a smart one, as you examined it before paying money. There are many galvanoplasty coins on the market, they used to make them for local museums' collections. When you hold it, it feels like holding a chocolate gold coin instead of a real one... just not as soft... ;)

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Look at the silver surface quality... Unless it is a very much used Novodel (it would be very unusual) it is very strange to see such a clean metal surface. Practically all, particularly well used, Altynniks that I know of have lots of surface imperfections: delamination of metal, potholes, dents, signs of metal tension around edges... You can clean the patina, and you can polish the surface, with both reducing the value of the coin, but you can not get read of these imperfaction... The design of the coin's print on the other hand is very good, this can be liked about it...

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Did you bid on it? If not for Sigi's comment, I probably would bid on it too when it was lower on price, but I missed the beginning. ;) Ask him what his reserve price is, he may say... It's not his fault, after all, that coin is slabbed, he's only a dealer, I have nothing against this guy, I am even bemused by his trading tactics... Not that I like the inflated prices...

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Extant... I am answering an earlier suggestion you made in regards to paying eBay. When I was selling stuff on eBay a year or two ago, anything that sold for more than $30 the seller had the option of offering to the next highest bidder if the highest bidder failed to pay. So I was never concerned whenever something sold for a lot of money because I knew I could just keep going down the line until someone said yes. I would also rather just take the hit from eBay rather than my pocketbook... would I be willing to lose eBay privleges over $10? No. Would I be willing to lose privileges over $400+? Yes. Also, I am hoping at least one person on here reported this seller for selling fake items... ebay like any other auction house or auction site, should have some concern for their reputation and don't want to gain a reputation for selling fake stuff.

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Generally, even if I make a mistake, I would pay for the item I won and either resell it or keep it as an extra, unless it is not what I expected ( : that's when I go into "Hot Fazz" mode : ). I don't feel it's fair of a seller to go into trouble only because I was stupid. For example, I just bought this item: http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?icep_ff3=2&pub=5574633083&toolid=10001&campid=5335826004&customid=&ipn=psmain&icep_vectorid=229466&kwid=902099&mtid=824&kw=lg&icep_item=330873971092 ... Frankly, I thought it was 1797 when I placed a last minute (or second) bid. It turned out to be 1798 as on photo, the one I already have. I've written to the seller and seller agreed to withdraw my bid (and probably offer it to the next bidder down, as you rightfully mentioned earlier) as he made an honest mistake in advertised year, and generally it maybe done at sellers mercy if they are asked by someone who make an honest mistake. But it is at their mercy as they are breaking a selling contract between you and them. If you don't pay without talking to seller, you get a strike, and after 2-3 strikes "bye-bye" buying privileges. I as a seller would never sell anything to a buyer with even a single strike. Everyone has their own limit where to draw the line I guess. Regarding reporting seller or his items to eBay when they are fake, it has been done so many times before to no consequence. It's like knocking your head on a wall, effect is similar. Unfortunately, eBay already has it's reputation of being a platform where you can sell any fake coin. Among many collectors it's referred to as World-Wide-Rubbish-Tip, where as on any rubbish tip, you may sometimes find a little treasure, but you have to be prepared to see a lot of rubbish. You can fight it as many times as you like, wreck your nerves and there will still be no change. Really, the only effective thing that you can do is - report it on your forum for people who bother to Google what they buy, if they don't, well, it's they own fault. I am against fake sales as it brings the reputation of selling platform down and (what is more important to me) turns people away from numismatics and from collecting Russian coins (in this case). I've done my fighting, but I am happy to report fakes in topics like this. The other thing that is suggested to any buyer, who ever bothered, is to Google seller's name with "known fake" and read the comments... Buyers need to educate themselves and bother to check sellers reputation on eBay and in Google whenever and whatever they are buying... Seller stampsosaurus sold some known fake coins just now and most probably knowingly, however he did mention in his listing clearly following "I believe this is a high quality copy from 1970-80's", so if someone bought them, they did so knowingly... Cheers!

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lol Well I didn't say that eBay had a sterling reputation, I merely stated they should be concerned that their reputation is at stake (which I have concluded a while ago they don't). I know exactly what you are saying about the reporting because I have done it myself but still it's the principal that hey I did my part to notify eBay and if they decide to leave it on it's them and my hands are clean in this mess. Anything that is sold out of China, India, Eastern Europe, the Philippines, Indonesia, etc. I just do not buy from regadless of the reputation of the seller. I know that makes it difficult for those who collect rare Russian coins to follow these rules and ever expect to get what they want. I can never understand anyone who would buy or sell an item that they have no idea what it is... I have stuff still sitting in my closet that I am not going to throw out or sell until I get a definitive answer not only to get what I feel I should get but also so that I don't get that reputation for selling fakes. You got to imagine that eBay makes an enormous fortune off counterfeit items.

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After all the owner of the Trash n' Treasure market does not control what is sold there and cares little about it, as long as it brings him the money... eBay isn't a purpose build numismatic auction, it's a Trash n' Treasure market... When you report anything to them you are just fooling yourself :) It's a kind of a psychotherapy you get when you pray - emotional reliese, only God listens, eBay not... and well, it doesn't work for me any more either, so I just stick to God now when I see another fake, I pray... lol ...

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After all the owner of the Trash n' Treasure market does not control what is sold there and cares little about it, as long as it brings him the money... eBay isn't a purpose build numismatic auction, it's a Trash n' Treasure market... When you report anything to them you are just fooling yourself :) It's a kind of a psychotherapy you get when you pray - emotional reliese, only God listens, eBay not... and well, it doesn't work for me any more either, so I just stick to God now when I see another fake, I pray... lol ...

 

Very well said, Eugene. Sometimes it helps to contact the seller diplomatically, appealing to his reputation, giving to understand that eBay has not yet been informed about it (of course eBay is no real threat but not every seller is aware of it). Of course you will find eBay always at the seller's side as eBay lives on the sellers' sale fees and on the sellers' paypal fees. They do not make a penny from the buyer.

I have seen sellers withdraw their fake :pardon: after such a step of mine.

Not all sellers of fakes are dishonest. Some are just careless or don't know. Such a person would hopefully become reluctant buying fakes as his merchandize. The eBay dealer has to buy his stuff before selling it.

As you say we have to deal with a Trash n' Treasure market. "Beware of Fakes" is not posted but must be in our minds.

Sigi

 

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