American jailed for 3 years for trying to take 2 coins out of Russia

[akdrv]

Came across this article on a Russian news website (in Russian): http://www.newsru.com/crime/22oct2010/2coins3ysntinodon.html

 

Short translation: 26-year-old American citizen (of Russian descent) sentenced to 3 years behind bars for trying to export 2 coins. The coins, Russian empire 1899 and silver ruble 1924, were found in his luggage wrapped in a towel.

[bobh]

Came across this article on a Russian news website (in Russian): http://www.newsru.com/crime/22oct2010/2coins3ysntinodon.html

 

Short translation: 26-year-old American citizen (of Russian descent) sentenced to 3 years behind bars for trying to export 2 coins. The coins, Russian empire 1899 and silver ruble 1924, were found in his luggage wrapped in a towel.

[PeterShell]

Shock.. that's all.

And for what ? For taking trash out of country....

[one-kuna]

Came across this article on a Russian news website (in Russian): http://www.newsru.com/crime/22oct2010/2coins3ysntinodon.html

 

Short translation: 26-year-old American citizen (of Russian descent) sentenced to 3 years behind bars for trying to export 2 coins. The coins, Russian empire 1899 and silver ruble 1924, were found in his luggage wrapped in a towel.

 

there were some doubts on other russian forum regards a right interpretation of this material in russian paper by russian correspondent, -

[grivna1726]

Came across this article on a Russian news website (in Russian): http://www.newsru.com/crime/22oct2010/2coins3ysntinodon.html

 

Short translation: 26-year-old American citizen (of Russian descent) sentenced to 3 years behind bars for trying to export 2 coins. The coins, Russian empire 1899 and silver ruble 1924, were found in his luggage wrapped in a towel.

Such things are easily found outside of Russia. It seems like a huge risk to take for such cheap and common coins.

 

Maybe there is more to the story than has been told.

[alexbq2]

That's horrible! It is possible that this guy was not a collector, and had no idea he could get these in states. These coins are sold everywhere tourists go. And it is not at all well known that you can not export them out of the country.

 

This guy is going to spend 3 years in hell for contributing $20 to the local economy! Way to encourage tourism!!!

[one-kuna]

That's horrible! It is possible that this guy was not a collector, and had no idea he could get these in states. These coins are sold everywhere tourists go. And it is not at all well known that you can not export them out of the country.

 

This guy is going to spend 3 years in hell for contributing $20 to the local economy! Way to encourage tourism!!!

Common guys, as I said earlrier, it was misrepresenting in russian press,

read same topic on coins dot su

[alexbq2]

The only thing I found on that site is disbelief that this could have happened to a foreign national.

 

However, if this unfortunate person had dual citizenship US/Russia, he would have entered Russia using his Russian passport as a Russian citizen, and as far as I know Russian laws do not recognize dual citizenship. He would be regarded and treated as just a Russian citizen (not a foreign national), and I doubt that the US state department would really care to do much to intervene.

[Candidate]

1. Do you think that Russian laws are different for Russian citizen and US citizen? And that US citizens deserve some "special treatment" if they break local laws in other countries ?

2. Why in any case should US State Dept "intervene" ? If someone from, say, China woould violate US law - say, steal from your pocket and get caught and then jailed - would you like that Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs "intervenes" and tell US Court what to do?

3. Why are you so nervous about other countries laws? Do you maybe think US laws are ideal? But in most countries (including Russia) capital punishment does not exist, while according to law in some of US States even a 12-year old can be prosecuted.

4. Who cares if this guy (of course, if this case is real) knew about the law or not? Would you like to try to bring in, say, Singapore just couple of pounds of grass (maybe just wishing to arrange a party for yourself and your friends) in your luggage, get caught, then sentenced to death - and would they listen to your explanations that you "didn't know" ?

 

Laws in some parts of the world can be strange or weird or absurd or too cruel - but it does not mean that you are free to break them if you "didn't know" or if you are a US citizen...

[one-kuna]

i am about to call to chamber room in court to see if this story exists, the only missing is a phone number

[alexbq2]

1. Do you think that Russian laws are different for Russian citizen and US citizen? And that US citizens deserve some "special treatment" if they break local laws in other countries ?

2. Why in any case should US State Dept "intervene" ? If someone from, say, China woould violate US law - say, steal from your pocket and get caught and then jailed - would you like that Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs "intervenes" and tell US Court what to do?

3. Why are you so nervous about other countries laws? Do you maybe think US laws are ideal? But in most countries (including Russia) capital punishment does not exist, while according to law in some of US States even a 12-year old can be prosecuted.

4. Who cares if this guy (of course, if this case is real) knew about the law or not? Would you like to try to bring in, say, Singapore just couple of pounds of grass (maybe just wishing to arrange a party for yourself and your friends) in your luggage, get caught, then sentenced to death - and would they listen to your explanations that you "didn't know" ?

 

Laws in some parts of the world can be strange or weird or absurd or too cruel - but it does not mean that you are free to break them if you "didn't know" or if you are a US citizen...

 

The statements with regard to the special status of foreign nationals came from russians' postings on the russian coin forum: http://coins.su/forum/index.php?showtopic=40324&st=100

 

Please address your questions to them. They live in Russia and have better grasp of the realities of the Russian court system than I would ever care to find out.

 

I doubt that the state department would intervene, but I hope they will. As they did in the case of that dumb teenager being caned in Singapore.

 

Do you think it is reasonable to give a 3 year sentence to a tourist for legally purchasing cheap and unremarkable coins as souvenirs, and for not realizing that he had to declare them at the customs?

 

I think when you are buying "grass" in Singapore, you are knowingly breaking the law, but you might not realize the consequences. In this case you are legally purchasing souvenirs targeted at tourists (anyone ever been to the Izmailovo market in Moscow?), and no one warns you that you need to declare them. And as a consequence of your insipid actions you get 3 years in a tuberculosis infected house of horrors?

[IgorS]

1. Do you think that Russian laws are different for Russian citizen and US citizen? And that US citizens deserve some "special treatment" if they break local laws in other countries ?

2. Why in any case should US State Dept "intervene" ? If someone from, say, China woould violate US law - say, steal from your pocket and get caught and then jailed - would you like that Chinese Ministry of Foreign Affairs "intervenes" and tell US Court what to do?

3. Why are you so nervous about other countries laws? Do you maybe think US laws are ideal? But in most countries (including Russia) capital punishment does not exist, while according to law in some of US States even a 12-year old can be prosecuted.

4. Who cares if this guy (of course, if this case is real) knew about the law or not? Would you like to try to bring in, say, Singapore just couple of pounds of grass (maybe just wishing to arrange a party for yourself and your friends) in your luggage, get caught, then sentenced to death - and would they listen to your explanations that you "didn't know" ?

 

Laws in some parts of the world can be strange or weird or absurd or too cruel - but it does not mean that you are free to break them if you "didn't know" or if you are a US citizen...

 

These russian laws regarding cultural heritage are made strictly to prosecute the poor, so a poor guy would spend 3 years in jail for a minor offense. After all, these two coins are simply junk. In the mean time, rich take out of the country anything they want...

[one-kuna]

These russian laws regarding cultural heritage are made strictly to prosecute the poor, so a poor guy would spend 3 years in jail for a minor offense. After all, these two coins are simply junk. In the mean time, rich take out of the country anything they want...

right, - it is a main conception

P.S. i stil believe that IF this story is true, there is missing something, and I strongly believe that a penalty of $1000 or more should have been settled, as first time happened and (junk) items of course must been confiscated

P.S. such a cheap case - local authorities probably proud of themself

[gxseries]

It's sad but I reckon these officials got better things to do for real. I'm not going to critise their laws since everyone's got different opinions.

 

But here's what I can share:

 

Last time when I visited Russia was in 2002 for studies - there wasn't a wide variety of souvenirs or ridiciously expensive if you want better stuff. I just happened to buy a bunch lot of Soviet commemorative coins and a couple of old Soviet silver coins. Therefore I could have been jailed under similar terms. All I knew back then was it was important to declare what you got so that you don't resell it in Russia.

 

Sure there are lots of beautiful places to visit but you REALLY need to know Russian just to travel. Speak english? You are ignored. Even worse if you happened to not look European. So if you happen to be in cities with hooligans, enjoy getting beaten up in the streets just because they are bored. Last time when Russia lost world cup against Japan back in 2002, major riot occured in Moscow and that news pretty much wasn't covered worldwide. I was there firsthand.

 

Are there places worthwhile to visit? Yes, lots of beautiful places

Easy to enter? No, you need to get visa and it can take a while

Tourist friendly? Clearly not. Need to understand Russian otherwise you'll get the "ne ponil" or ignore look

Police? Full of nonsense - last time I had an encounter with one who claimed that the Russian police has the right to collect $ from foreigners and will take me to the station if I didn't pay up. He took a look at my passport and visa status and let me off. Hello??? Imagine if I had something different. Yes, they are too busy collecting money and can't be bothered to lock up all those hooligans.

Customs? You get all these news people getting caught over "small things".

 

My conclusion? Clearly not positive. All I know is, I wouldn't visit Russia anytime soon even though it's a beautiful country.

[Candidate]

But here's what I can share:

 

Last time when I visited Russia was in 2002 for studies - there wasn't a wide variety of souvenirs or ridiciously expensive if you want better stuff. I just happened to buy a bunch lot of Soviet commemorative coins and a couple of old Soviet silver coins. Therefore I could have been jailed under similar terms. All I knew back then was it was important to declare what you got so that you don't resell it in Russia.

 

Sure there are lots of beautiful places to visit but you REALLY need to know Russian just to travel. Speak english? You are ignored. Even worse if you happened to not look European. So if you happen to be in cities with hooligans, enjoy getting beaten up in the streets just because they are bored. Last time when Russia lost world cup against Japan back in 2002, major riot occured in Moscow and that news pretty much wasn't covered worldwide. I was there firsthand.

 

Are there places worthwhile to visit? Yes, lots of beautiful places

Easy to enter? No, you need to get visa and it can take a while

Tourist friendly? Clearly not. Need to understand Russian otherwise you'll get the "ne ponil" or ignore look

Police? Full of nonsense - last time I had an encounter with one who claimed that the Russian police has the right to collect $ from foreigners and will take me to the station if I didn't pay up. He took a look at my passport and visa status and let me off. Hello??? Imagine if I had something different. Yes, they are too busy collecting money and can't be bothered to lock up all those hooligans.

Customs? You get all these news people getting caught over "small things".

 

My conclusion? Clearly not positive. All I know is, I wouldn't visit Russia anytime soon even though it's a beautiful country.

Nice.

Same can be told about almost any country.

 

For example, "some impressions of Russian visitor from USA" (each word based on own experience):

 

Sure there are lots of beautiful places to visit but you REALLY need to know English just to travel.

Speak Russian? You are ignored.

Even worse if you happened to not look American.

So if you happen to be in South Bronx or some parts of Broklyn, or Harlem in Manhattan - enjoy getting robbed or beaten up in the streets just because they are bored.

 

Are there places worthwhile to visit? Yes, lots of beautiful places.

Easy to enter? No, you need to get visa and it can take a while (not speaking all the papers you need to present to US Embassy Consular section to show your social status and financial position in order to prove that you are not going to become an illegal immigrant).

Tourist friendly? Maybe, but you need to understand English otherwise you'll get the "You're in Amercia - so speak English!" or more often just a dumb look from a native person who never suspected that any other languages exist except "American" (and, maybe, Spanish).

Security control in airport? Taking internal flight from LaGuardia to LV, Nevada only 4 people were picked from the line of 100 or so passengres, and underwent full search, including partial undressing and body search - just because those 4 (including me and my wife) had non-US passports.

When checking "electronic devices" the security officer twirled my "slider"-type cell phone for 3 minutes trying to guess how to open it... then gave up and simply passed it back to me without comment...

 

Your conclusion? ...

[Saor Alba]

Nice.

Same can be told about almost any country.

 

For example, "some impressions of Russian visitor from USA" (each word based on own experience):

 

Sure there are lots of beautiful places to visit but you REALLY need to know English just to travel.

Speak Russian? You are ignored.

Even worse if you happened to not look American.

So if you happen to be in South Bronx or some parts of Broklyn, or Harlem in Manhattan - enjoy getting robbed or beaten up in the streets just because they are bored.

 

Are there places worthwhile to visit? Yes, lots of beautiful places.

Easy to enter? No, you need to get visa and it can take a while (not speaking all the papers you need to present to US Embassy Consular section to show your social status and financial position in order to prove that you are not going to become an illegal immigrant).

Tourist friendly? Maybe, but you need to understand English otherwise you'll get the "You're in Amercia - so speak English!" or more often just a dumb look from a native person who never suspected that any other languages exist except "American" (and, maybe, Spanish).

Security control in airport? Taking internal flight from LaGuardia to LV, Nevada only 4 people were picked from the line of 100 or so passengres, and underwent full search, including partial undressing and body search - just because those 4 (including me and my wife) had non-US passports.

When checking "electronic devices" the security officer twirled my "slider"-type cell phone for 3 minutes trying to guess how to open it... then gave up and simply passed it back to me without comment...

 

Your conclusion? ...

 

I have travelled a lot in Russia and Ukraine and stay in Ukraine for long periods of time. And yes, Americans really do treat you differently - like Russians do. So really, Americans and Russians have a lot in common. But quite frankly I have had LESS problems in Europe than in America. I can recount quite a few bad experiences with immigration in the USA and dealing with immigration people that were borderline discriminatory and abusive. And it got a lot worse after 9-11.

[kopeikin]

Nice.

Same can be told about almost any country.

 

For example, "some impressions of Russian visitor from USA" (each word based on own experience):

 

Sure there are lots of beautiful places to visit but you REALLY need to know English just to travel.

Speak Russian? You are ignored.

Even worse if you happened to not look American.

So if you happen to be in South Bronx or some parts of Broklyn, or Harlem in Manhattan - enjoy getting robbed or beaten up in the streets just because they are bored.

 

Are there places worthwhile to visit? Yes, lots of beautiful places.

Easy to enter? No, you need to get visa and it can take a while (not speaking all the papers you need to present to US Embassy Consular section to show your social status and financial position in order to prove that you are not going to become an illegal immigrant).

Tourist friendly? Maybe, but you need to understand English otherwise you'll get the "You're in Amercia - so speak English!" or more often just a dumb look from a native person who never suspected that any other languages exist except "American" (and, maybe, Spanish).

Security control in airport? Taking internal flight from LaGuardia to LV, Nevada only 4 people were picked from the line of 100 or so passengres, and underwent full search, including partial undressing and body search - just because those 4 (including me and my wife) had non-US passports.

When checking "electronic devices" the security officer twirled my "slider"-type cell phone for 3 minutes trying to guess how to open it... then gave up and simply passed it back to me without comment...

 

Your conclusion? ...

 

Candidate, the round of applause to you for a sharp answer! I agree with you in that there are some similarities between the life in Russian and United States Empires. I had permanently left Ukraine (then part of the USSR) in 1990. I was 26 at the time. I had a bout of nostalgia and visited Ukraine one more time in 1992. My nostalgia was permanently cured by this horrible visit. Since then I never visited any former USSR state and do not plan to. I know the country and the people too well. Why do I have to spoil my vacation? I prefer to reside in Canada and to visit the countries with friendly people and with the laws that make sense.

[alexbq2]

Nobody’s perfect, but I think we are losing focus. The difference in this situation is that in the US if a person is given an outrageously harsh punishment for a minor and innocuous offense (and this has happened in the past and will happen in the future) there is a degree of public outcry (that may or may not help). And there are NGO’s that will take up the cause. And there is media that will question the sentence.

 

I’m not sure what has happened to this unfortunate individual, nor do I know what will happen. But the article above presented this case as a triumph of justice over a notorious contrabandist, and did not at all question the imbalance of the punishment with regard to the offense. Will anything, but the intervention from a great and mighty person of power, help this person in modern Russia?

[Saor Alba]

Candidate, the round of applause to you for a sharp answer! I agree with you in that there are some similarities between the life in Russian and United States Empires. I had permanently left Ukraine (then part of the USSR) in 1990. I was 26 at the time. I had a bout of nostalgia and visited Ukraine one more time in 1992. My nostalgia was permanently cured by this horrible visit. Since then I never visited any former USSR state and do not plan to. I know the country and the people too well. Why do I have to spoil my vacation? I prefer to reside in Canada and to visit the countries with friendly people and with the laws that make sense.

 

I travel back and forth to Ukraine since 2001, like USA there are parts of Ukraine I like to be in, and other places I do not care for because people not as friendly etc. Odessa is a city I like to visit, but living there? What can I say, too much traffic, it is pain to shop for food, it is just different place. Kyiv(Kiev) is big city, hard to get around, hard to get groceries and stupidly expensive but I like living right off of the Maidan Prospekt because you are so close to centre of everything going on. Even free WiFi internet from Ukrpost.

 

But cost of living wise, travel wise, and just easier for me with not having to try to understand Ukrainian, I get by easier in the east of Ukraine, never have the problems of coming and going, nobody questions me - fit right in with language and where family is anyway so it easy.

 

But we get sort of "stuck" in the USA - dual citizenships are a huge problem we found out coming back from Canada back in 2004. Canada never problem to enter, it only is problem to get back in USA everytime. No matter what passport you hand to immigration they hassle you. Like I said earlier now we have "English only" rule about conversations, too many mistakes of speaking Russian. Then they hassle you, too many questions, open bags and don't use Ukraine passports outside of Ukraine. Even not in Ukraine depending where we go. So Canada for us is sort of "off limits" now - not because of Canada, but because of USA! BTW easy to travel to UA, don't need Visas, but wanna go from UA to USA - need a visa, and six month wait and huge long line in Kiev consulate with sometimes rude people working there.

[Saor Alba]

Oh and back on topic. I *smuggled* out Tsarist era coins from Russia, but far more sent out through the post. Usually with Ukraine I just have someone send them through mail, it is easier than trying to bring out - usually all I ever see is spending money and coins from Ukraine more expensive bought in Ukraine than outside of country so customs would not likely be a problem. I get many very nice coins from people I know in Russia, going through posts makes easier for everybody especially given ridiculous customs officers.

[alexbq2]

Well, this story strikes a chord with me.

 

I believe I already mentioned once or twice in some other threads that once while I was a teenager in the early 90’s and was visiting my relatives during the summer, I did buy some coins, and not realizing that those peculiar Soviet laws and regulations were still in effect, I stuck my coins into my bag (just like the fellow in the story). And the customs officials did find them.

 

But I guess those days in Russia were kinder and gentler because I did not spend 3 years in jail. Actually, I only lost about 30 minutes while they filled out some paperwork to take my coins away. And I even got those coins back, but that involved some more paperwork, and mail.

 

What happened to this gut is just Kafkaesque!

[Saor Alba]

During the early 90's the laws were somewhat more ambiguous - sometimes coin collectors would be hassled by militsiya just as in USSR days, but then would back off when it came to prosecution. Often times it just took a few rubles to pay "fine" and all was good.

 

It was the same with traffic enforcement, in Ukraine, up until a couple of years ago it was easier to get out of ticket - just pay the "fine". Now with new laws it is definitely not easy to be pulled over. And you are guilty and cannot be proven innocent. It is cop's word and that is way it goes.

[Rhino]

Has anyone had any experience taking coins out of Israel? I'm going on a trip soon and know I'll be picking up a few Russian czarist coins... should I be concerned about taking them out of Israel? I tried looking up restrictions and laws, but couldn't find anything

[Saor Alba]

Has anyone had any experience taking coins out of Israel? I'm going on a trip soon and know I'll be picking up a few Russian czarist coins... should I be concerned about taking them out of Israel? I tried looking up restrictions and laws, but couldn't find anything

 

 

I think you would have to mainly be concerned with taking ancient coins out of Israel. BTW I would watch out there as that seems to be one of those places where a lot of fakes of Tsarist coins come from.

[one-kuna]

When checking "electronic devices" the security officer twirled my "slider"-type cell phone for 3 minutes trying to guess how to open it... then gave up and simply passed it back to me without comment...

 

was the phone russian made ?