DJB Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 What we are not missing is not the end of price craziness... But if the craziness is limited to extremely high grade and high rarity coins, that is ok by me.. let them fight it out. And leave the ugly, unloved, treasures for the common folk bargain hunters like me Well put. If someone wants to pay $20,000+ for an item that's only worth $200-$400 (hypothetical), let them. I put in a sensible bid for an item I want and hope for the best. Most times I figure I don't have a chance, but sometimes I hit the jackpot without breaking my bank account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Thank you for the reply. I collect more by design type and not so much by die variety, so I probably miss things that leap off the page to others. There was an 1886 small head rouble in Gorny auction a few years ago. This is the only one I've seen in recent memory. 1887 small head shows up in auctions a few times a year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 There was an 1886 small head rouble in Gorny auction a few years ago. This is the only one I've seen in recent memory. 1887 small head shows up in auctions a few times a year. So, can anyone explain why such a huge premium was paid for a relatively common coin (1 rub 1886) in decent but not Choice UNC condition ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STEVE MOULDING Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Images are here for anyone who wants to see what all the fuss is about http://92.51.146.13/old_images/173/08842a00_bild.jpg http://92.51.146.13/old_images/173/08842r00_bild.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 Images are here for anyone who wants to see what all the fuss is about http://92.51.146.13/old_images/173/08842a00_bild.jpg http://92.51.146.13/old_images/173/08842r00_bild.jpg Thank you , Steve. ...still in dark.. A very nice piece of silver. No more than that. Why the premium ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted October 21, 2008 Report Share Posted October 21, 2008 1886 Ruble (large head) appears on almost every large auction. Not a rare coin. If this is not a typing error in prices realized ... in any case it is NOT a market price for this coin. Gambling. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nordic gold Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 What puzzles me in among the results of the G & M auction is nr 8883. We have seen crazy prices before - but could this be true? If so, prooflike has become more desirable than ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 What puzzles me in among the results of the G & M auction is nr 8883. We have seen crazy prices before - but could this be true? If so, prooflike has become more desirable than ever. maybe it was a proof, not prooflike? or an error? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marv Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 maybe it was a proof, not prooflike? or an error? It is a proof. PP means polierte platte or polished planchet. It also says "stark berieben" or heavily rubbed. Amazing that such a coin would go for well over $100,000 (unless that price is a mistake). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 22, 2008 Report Share Posted October 22, 2008 It is a proof. PP means polierte platte or polished planchet. It also says "stark berieben" or heavily rubbed. Amazing that such a coin would go for well over $100,000 (unless that price is a mistake). Most likely, this is a fake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Most likely, this is a fake. What makes you doubt authenticity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 What makes you doubt authenticity? Over last 10 years, I personally examined 4-5 exemplars of 15 rub in "proof”. Unfortunately, ALL of them proved to be fakes; nicely done but fakes. The weak part is the rim's lettering. I have a question: how many times has anyone on this forum seen personally a proof 15 rub coin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Over last 10 years, I personally examined 4-5 exemplars of 15 rub in "proof”. Unfortunately, ALL of them proved to be fakes; nicely done but fakes. The weak part is the rim's lettering. I have a question: how many times has anyone on this forum saw personally a proof 15 rub coin? never... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 never... Yeah, same here. I sometimes think that they have never existed in proof. I, however, read some references to proof 15 rub but (1) never saw a valid picture; (2) never saw a real coin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BKB Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 10 ruble coins exist in proof, though. Why not 15? Whole bunch of really rare stuff come up for sale nowdays... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RW Julian Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Over last 10 years, I personally examined 4-5 exemplars of 15 rub in "proof”. Unfortunately, ALL of them proved to be fakes; nicely done but fakes. The weak part is the rim's lettering. I have a question: how many times has anyone on this forum seen personally a proof 15 rub coin? I do not consider weak edge lettering as meaning that the coin is not genuine. If the St. Petersburg Mint was using segmented edging collars in 1897, then perhaps weak lettering may be an indication of being false. However, it is my impression that the edges were lettered in advance for the proof coinage and the lettering would therefore have been partially crushed when the piece was struck more than once in a close collar. I do not have any proof roubles or half roubles from this period but perhaps someone could examine the edges of such coins to see if the lettering is crushed here also. RWJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 That 15 rouble coin is a small head veriety. It is marked as Unique in Kazakov! Since I was at the auction, here is what took place - Everyone is sitting quietly and thinking that he is the only one who noticed that coin. And then it started... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 ... (1) never saw a valid picture... Yes you did, lot 8883. IMHO. Seems to be real. And yes, all Proof gold coins of Nicholas II era have weak edge lettering. Not genuine examples have "dancing" (not perfectly alligned one to another) letters on the edge and improperly done frosting that goes somewhere from details into fields. WCO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Can it not be possible that it's a novodel? There has been some twist in Russian numismatics with the Russian platinum coins concerning that some coins are too pure considering the technology available at that time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IgorS Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Can it not be possible that it's a novodel? The production of Novodels was stopped in 1890 by law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altyn Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Yeah. What are we ALL missing here? What is so special about this particular coin? How different is this coin (Bitkin 60) from the pattern coin by Griliches (Bitkin no. 225) if you do not see the edge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 The production of Novodels was stopped in 1890 by law. Is there any chance that there might be novodels made in Soviet times? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 How different is this coin (Bitkin 60) from the pattern coin by Griliches (Bitkin no. 225) if you do not see the edge? As I said above , these fakes are very convincing. In addition to the rim issue mentioned, the surfaces of these proof exemplares are somewhat rough but do look polished. Again, let me stress what I have seen and have stated: (1) this is MOST LIKELY a fake (my honest opinion only) (2) nobody, actually, so far, pointed out to a valid proof 15 rub at ANY auction or collection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oldman Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 Is there any chance that there might be novodels made in Soviet times? Dear grivna1726, Mr IgorS will reply to you but I wanted to mentioned that there is no known record of such minting. If it were the case, we would have seen them before, however, they have surfaced pretty recently. Best regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCO Posted October 23, 2008 Report Share Posted October 23, 2008 I do believe that in 1897 there were gold Proof coins minted for all 3 denominations 5, 7 1/2 and 15 Rubles. Buying such a coin may be a lifetime opportunity. I only used to see 1897 5 Rubles in Proof. I also believe that 15 Ruble Patterns that have rarity R4 or so also could be minted as Proofs. Again, coins are very rare... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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