Drusus Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Germans had a way with the coin. After asking many different dealers at the houston show I found one that happened to have some notgeld and he had some real nice ones: This one was the highlight: Simple with an old lady who looks a little hard and weary...I love the simplicity of the coin design yet so much is conveyed in her face, to me it is a wonderful coin, sign of the times, made with real skill. Almost reminds me of a real well done hobo nickel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 A very nice coin and it really does tell the story of the times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 That lady is (supposed to be) a Marktfrau, ie. a market woman or market dealer. The word "Öcher" is local dialect for "Aachener", and "1 Grosche" (or Groschen in standard German) means it had a value of 10 pfennig. Mintage was about 3 million ... Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whohah Posted December 6, 2007 Report Share Posted December 6, 2007 Was this designed by Goetz?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I dont know WHO designed it...did he design coins as well as medals? not sure... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goetzdude Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Was this designed by Goetz?? ...no Goetz designed coins but they were more along this line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whohah Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 ...no Goetz designed coins but they were more along this line... I am familiar [meaning I've seen'em on the Web] with the Goetz designed German patterns from the mid 1920's. This Aachen notgeld just looked to me to be his style. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santa Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I too like portrait German Notgelds. Very original design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 yeah..to be honest its not that laughable...the coin design is, IMO, impressive...I like the notgeld more than I like the Goetz coin even...though few could hold a candle to his medals which never fail to impress....then again his medals exhibit more of what I like Notgeld for. I prefer the interesting unconventional styles and themes of the aachen coin to the more conventional theme of the Goetz example that lacks the style and caricatures that are in his medals and are so impressive. Not to say that the Goetz coin isnt pleasant...what I like about Notgeld like this one is the freedom of themes which produce a coin like this as opposed to the less interesting, more common type themes like the Goetz example. It just lacks the unconventional style and themes that many of his medals have that make them so interesting appart from the obvious skill that is always impressive. I also have the Coblenz coin with Johann Joseph von Görres though mine has a different reverse. I have the Bonn / Beethoven as well, just not posted yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goetzdude Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Goetz' patterns are more conventional because there were design standards required in order to compete for new coinage designs with the Munich Mint, so, of course these would appear more mundane even though Goetz' designs far out did other competitor designs in my opinion. Notgeld, on the other hand, were not held to such standards nor requirements so there was far more freedom to create whatever the private mints would mint. What I like about notgeld are their expediency of design and manufacture...especially during times of war and depression. Goetz created two different sets of Notgeld. City of Laufen in 1918 (see below) and Ruhr/Rhine District in 1923. I have yet to photograph my three notgeld Rhine set. The Laufen Set also has a 1919 50 Mark piece which I have in my collection but, as yet, haven't photographed. These are in silver (five sets minted) but they were also made in iron. As you'll immediately note, these notgeld with St.Rupertus striking different poses are more whimsical than his coin designs. Whohah, I wasn't laughing at you, if you saw more Goetz designs you'd immediately note that Goetz does not design for two flat surface planes with limited modeling, on the contrary, he usually pushes the limits on the three-dimensionality of his pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I figured his design for the coin came with far more restrictions having to meet standards not present with notgeld, there was far more license taken thus the more interesting coinage designs. All the same it doesnt strike me as one of his better works even for what it is. Certainly it is the interesting nature of notgeld that the themes are so wide and varied, each so different. Cheap as dirt some, and often times poorly minted. But there are some real outstanding ones as well to be sure, lovely works of art, two I have always been a fan of and the coin set that attracted me to notgeld would be these Duren issues: ^^ I wouldnt have been shocked if someone said this soldier was Goetz as well or by the same person who did the aachen coin, they seem similar...I have no idea who designed most of the notgeld I own. I do love the simplicity of the notgeld like the first example in this thread, not that they were all simple but more, like you say, reality of the times, expediency and there are some impressive designs all the same. I am sure there are many Goetz designs I haven't seen but as a fan of your site and collection, I have spent quite a bit of time rummaging through your website showing it to others. I think I have seen a good sampling of the fine examples of his medals. I love his unique style and like I said before, those designs are outstanding with what seems to be, on many, what may have been more freedom with the designs and the great high relief. True works of art. I love everything about this frau coin, I love that they used the subject, the antithesis of the beauties on most other coins. I dont know if a statement was trying to be made, but the idea in and of itself was great. Some times simple is better in my opinion. You could easily say that the Aachen notgeld is a classic example of real skillful use of the 'do more with less'...the large fields of the bonnet with scant detail, contrasted with the simple lines that make up the face but depicts so vividly the subject. Also I like the more simple (whether refined or raw) coins in general. I have several of those notgeld you have posted...I was unaware they were by Goetz. The style of those coins, I assume because of lower relief, didn't remind me of his work but I can see it. I am thrilled I own several Goetz designs You just made my night! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banivechi Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 These Aachener and Duren notmunze were struck by Gebr. Kugel & Fink from Ludenscheid (Gebr. is equiv. of Bros. in english). In Funck catalogue are these informations provided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santa Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I use this catalogue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 Germans had a way with the coin. After asking many different dealers at the houston show I found one that happened to have some notgeld and he had some real nice ones: This one was the highlight: Simple with an old lady who looks a little hard and weary...I love the simplicity of the coin design yet so much is conveyed in her face, to me it is a wonderful coin, sign of the times, made with real skill. Almost reminds me of a real well done hobo nickel. Very attractive! Is the piece cast? Don't misunderstand, I am NOT suggesting it is a fake. Given the chaos of the time and the private nature of the issue, casting rather than striking might have been the most reasonable option and there is a long tradition of casting by medallists (who might have been called upon to create this piece). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
grivna1726 Posted December 7, 2007 Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 These are in silver (five sets minted) Now that's rare! Of those 5 sets, how many are in private hands? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drusus Posted December 7, 2007 Author Report Share Posted December 7, 2007 I also use the Robert Lamb Catalogue of German War Tokens, it does not give that much info about each coin save for city, denomination, date, what it was minted on, and a catalogue #. It also gives far out of date values which in most cases seem to be 100X cheaper than the coins sell for these days. If I had to take a guess I would say the Aachen coin was minted in Iron, not cast but I couldnt say that for sure...I say this because of the sharpness of detail that doesnt show certain signs of casting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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