YeOldeCollector's Olde Purchases

[YeOldeCollector]

 

Henry III Voided Longcross penny. Class Vb, Willem on Cant. A very unusual 'C' in my opinion.

[thedeadpoint]

The "C" is at the 9 o'clock position, right?

[YeOldeCollector]

The "C" is at the 9 o'clock position, right?

 

On the reverse, yep! I thought you said you couldn't get the hang of Medieval coin legends? I am mightily impressed, George!

[Art]

Another great little coin. You make us more and more interested in these little guys everytime you post one.

[YeOldeCollector]

Look what I got in my change in Waitrose today!

 

 

The first 2010 coin I've seen and it shows how the quality of the Mint is deteriorating. Even so, not bad for a penny.

[thedeadpoint]

How's it deteriorating?

[Art]

Interesting design.

[ccg]

I'm guessing there's die stress lines on the left side of the reverse?

[YeOldeCollector]

How's it deteriorating?

 

Each year I notice more and more errors, as if they are more careless when checking.

 

I'm guessing there's die stress lines on the left side of the reverse?

 

I'm not too familiar with milled errors, but the E of Elizabeth has almost been completely smoothed and is the same on the corresponding area on the reverse.

[YeOldeCollector]

 

Certainly not a looker but a very rare coin indeed. A genuine silver portrait penny of Queen Mary.

[thedeadpoint]

Well, I can't say she's ugly.

 

 

She's the Scottish queen, right? Did coinage change at all under her because of her origins?

[YeOldeCollector]

She's the Scottish queen, right? Did coinage change at all under her because of her origins?

 

Nope. Mary Queen of Scots was this Mary's cousin and many years younger. This Mary was the half-sister of both Queen Elizabeth I and Edward VI.

 

Coinage did change somewhat under her reign, but not because of her origins. I would argue that most of it changed due to her marriage. Her marriage led to two portraits being featured on a coin and a foreigner, so to speak, being named and sometimes portrayed.

[thedeadpoint]

So this is the Mary of William & Mary? Fascinating.

[YeOldeCollector]

So this is the Mary of William & Mary? Fascinating.

 

Nope, sorry. This is the Mary of Philip and Mary. These two:

 

 

 

He was King Philip of Spain and the marriage was the union of two of the most powerful nations in the world, it was a purely political union.

[thedeadpoint]

Well, I can't think of any more questions I can fail to answer....

 

 

Do you smell updog?

[YeOldeCollector]

My most recent arrival.

 

 

Henry VIII Posthumous groat.

[thedeadpoint]

Posthumous in memory? or out of necessity due to the succeeding monarchs?

 

Also, it looks very big. Where does the groat fit on the denomination scale?

[YeOldeCollector]

Posthumous in memory? or out of necessity due to the succeeding monarchs?

 

Also, it looks very big. Where does the groat fit on the denomination scale?

 

The coins were minted posthumously during the reign of his son, Edward VI, by the Duke of Somerset who basically ran the country until 1549, when Edward took lead. Somerset and his advisers were determined to create as much of this debased money as possible and so attempted to get as much coinage out of the dies before a transition to Edward would be ultimately forced. Henry had originally debased it because he spent most of the country's money on wars, skirmishes and entertainment. This meant that he reduced the silver content of his coins by ensuring they had a copper core, this is where his nickname 'Coppernose' comes from because the nose was the highest point on his coins and so wear exhibited here the most showing his nose to be copper.

 

As for size, it is about 2.5cm/1in in diameter, quite a hefty coin as the hammered series goes. A groat is a fourpence and so was fairly low down in terms of the denominations minted but fairly high up in terms of what was actually circulating. The denominations at the time were Sovereigns, Half Sovereigns, Crowns, Halfcrowns, Testoons, Groats, Halfgroats, Pennies and Halfpennies.

[thedeadpoint]

Testoons? Weird.

 

Fascinating, Clive. Thanks for the answer.

[YeOldeCollector]

 

Be sure to enlarge, I've tried a new method of displaying the images.

 

This coin really does have an absolutely stunning portrait, in hand it is exemplary!

[constanius]

Very nice presentation of a beautiful coin Clive.

[YeOldeCollector]

Many thanks, Pat. It was an absolute steal because the seller listed it in "Coins > Coins > British > Elizabeth II (1953-c.1971) > Penny".

[YeOldeCollector]

 

A penny of Henry III. Henri on London. Class IIIc. This dates to around 1249.

 

At first I thought that it had been broken by a spade or a plough. However, on closer inspection, it has not been dented at all and so could not have been caused by trauma. I then thought that it had been bent and then folded out to straighten, but it is too flat and has no distortion. Therefore, I believe that this penny has had an attempt to cut it been made. Pennies were struck whole at the mint and cut into fractions, (halves and quarters), and distributed from the mint.

 

I doubt that it had been 'cut' at the mint, because I find it hard to believe that the attempt would have been so crude as to not completely sever the halves. The cut is also not exactly on the lines, but does run entirely parallel to it.

 

All in all, a very interesting coin and at a bargain price as it looked to just be damaged.

[thedeadpoint]

Interesting... A mint that purposely disfigures a coin to be released into the public!

 

YOC, who would be the mint's customers? Who directly received the mint's products?

[YeOldeCollector]

Interesting... A mint that purposely disfigures a coin to be released into the public!

 

But, to them, it wasn't disfiguring. It was merely a method of creating coins. A penny was just a measure of bullion and so it did not matter whether the mint cut them into halves or quarters.

 

The cutting was meant to be done by the mint alone as they wanted to control the whole coinage system and therefore have a say in how many pennies, halfpennies and farthings were circulating. However, this did not work out and many merchants and traders cut coins themselves to make small change. It was not until about 1222 when it was decided that halfpennies and farthings should be minted on round flans, just like their contemporary pennies. Eight dies were produced in London to issue halfpennies and farthings but not a single die has ever been found and none of the said coins have either. It can only be assumed that the moneyers thought the prospect of issuing round small change was absolutely absurd and so did not carry out the minting. Alas, we have to wait until Edward I to see such small change.

 

 

YOC, who would be the mint's customers? Who directly received the mint's products?

 

 

Any one who went to the moneyer with bullion silver either in the form of old coins to exchange for new types in the form of the recoinages or a standard weight of silver. So, if you went to the mint during John's reign with a penny of Richard I then you would be entitled to a new penny of King John subject to it falling into the correct weight category. If your coin was more than one-eighth less than the correct weight then it would only be accepted as a bullion part payment.

 

Obviously the mint would not just accept single pennies as it would not be an efficient system, but merchants would arrive at the mint with bags full of clipped bits of silver, coins from around Europe and English coins in the quest of acquiring new, genuine currency for circulation. The moneyer would charge a slight fee though, hence why they became very powerful men and wealthy landowners.