gxseries Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Now, I think I got hit by another bug: unusual coins. One of my Chinese friends that I start to know quite recently comes from Tsing Tao and I decided to do some coin research from that area. Tsing Tao was at one stage occupied by the Germans in in the early 1900s. Now how is this related to numismatics? Sure thing, there was only one year type coins minted in 1909, which are 5 and 10 cents. http://www.worldcoingallery.com/countries/...0Cents%20(1909) http://www.worldcoingallery.com/countries/...0Cents%20(1909) Now notice, they are quite unusual designs! German designs at the reverse and Chinese design on the obverse? That's pretty neat I say. It seems that they aren't too easy to find, yet some PROOF coins are listed on the Internet. Now, does anyone know where to find them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tabbs Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 If you try to find one of these, search for "Kiautschou", not Tsingtao. A little odd, I know, since the city of Kiautschou was not part of the German Kiautschou Territory. Those coins were supposed to replace the Mexican "dollars" (the 5 and 10 cent coins were worth 1/20 and 1/10 respectively), and the Japanese and European cash that circulated in the area ... Christian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josemartins Posted September 20, 2006 Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 It seems that they aren't too easy to find, yet some PROOF coins are listed on the Internet. Now, does anyone know where to find them? Never saw these coins in "proof", but the circulation issues are not hard to find (although they are not cheap), if you can't find these in Ebay, try: www.ma-shops.com , not always the "nicest" prices but all sellers are Jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted September 20, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 20, 2006 Ah you guys are just great Many thanks! Price wise... I guess these coins are quite expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 I have never seen proofs of these. The grades I most commonly enounter are VF30 and EF. I have yet to find one that I can afford. I'm not sure but I think they might be struck on 5 and 10 pf planchets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 These are very neat. I've never seen them before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted September 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 P.S. Did I forget to mention that Tsing Tao is one of the world's beer producer as well as probably the most popular in China? Now you know where the origins come from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scottishmoney Posted September 21, 2006 Report Share Posted September 21, 2006 P.S. Did I forget to mention that Tsing Tao is one of the world's beer producer as well as probably the most popular in China? Now you know where the origins come from I had a few while there, and it can be found here. Unlike Ukrainian beer, which can be found, but you have to know somebody to get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josemartins Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 I'm not sure but I think they might be struck on 5 and 10 pf planchets. I've checked the 10 Ct. this morning and its diameter is about halfway trough a 10 pf. (+ 0.5 mm) and a 25 pf. Jose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeggy Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Most pieces show some weak strike. Here's a coin from my collection, with some better strike as usually found. Avers Revers Information about the chinese side: The four inner chinese symbols translate to: IMPERIAL GERMAN COIN The outer symbols: TSINGTAO (top) 10 CENT (left and right) 10 PIECES FOR ONE DOLLAR BIG MONEY (bottom, 10 Cent) 20 PIECES FOR ONE DOLLAR BIG MONEY (bottom, 5 Cent) (big money = decimal coinage, small money = chinese cash coins) Last, not least: Beware of fakes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted September 22, 2006 Report Share Posted September 22, 2006 Most pieces show some weak strike.Here's a coin from my collection, with some better strike as usually found. Avers Revers Information about the chinese side: The four inner chinese symbols translate to: IMPERIAL GERMAN COIN The outer symbols: TSINGTAO (top) 10 CENT (left and right) 10 PIECES FOR ONE DOLLAR BIG MONEY (bottom, 10 Cent) 20 PIECES FOR ONE DOLLAR BIG MONEY (bottom, 5 Cent) (big money = decimal coinage, little money = chinese cash coins) Last, not least: Beware of fakes... Nice piece! Here's my translation of the Chinese Characters: Tsingtao One Dime [Great / Imperial] German [Currency/Coin] Every ten pieces equals one big Western dollar If this sounds confusing, let me explain: The Chinese monetary system until 1935 was silver based. The silver dollar itself was traded not really as a dollar, but as a known weight of silver (0.72 tael). Foreign silver dollars of course were also acceptable. In this case, these coins are denominated in terms of Mexican 8-reales. The dollar coins were standard throughout the country and are known as "big money" "Small money" is defined as all subsiduary coinage. This is basically all coins with a face value of under a dollar. Most commonly encountered are the provincial 10C/1c, 10c and 20c issues, as well as the rapidly dissappearing 1 Cash coins. Other normally struck pieces (depending on locale) included the 2 Cash, 5 Cash, 5 cents and 50 cents. Subsiduary silver coinage contained less silver. Either they were lighter, or of a lower fineness. So for example, it might take 11 dimes to equal one dollar. The 1 cent / 10 cash coins though originally were supposed to be "one cent" were later traded virtually as copper "bullion", and their value varied along with the current copper/silver ratios. Many cash coins were eventually melted as it became worthwhile. I haven't read anything about the currency system in Tsingtao at the time, so I'm not sure what was the acceptability of these pieces as they're a token rather than a real (gold/silver/copper) coinage. If they were accepted as being 1/10 of a dollar, then they would be "big money." But if they were treated the same as a [imperial Chinese] dragon dime, then they would be "small money" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeggy Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 It was a time of lack of silver coins and a time of a very unstable local currency (especially of the local bronze cash). This was the reason for the German Government to issue own coins. The banknotes and coins from the German Empire represented a stable currency, the acceptance was high in whole China, because the German Government deposited Silver at the German-Asian Bank matching the nominal value of the whole amount of issued money. 1 Mexican Dollar was about 1300-1500 Cash (1907) 1 Tael (37g) was about 1800-2000 Cash (1907) A little odd, I know, since the city of Kiautschou was not part of the German Kiautschou Territory.Kiao-Chau / Kiautschou was the name of the whole region as well as the name of the city. The property leased by the German Government was small - but at the same time the most interesting part of the Kiao-Chau region. Today, the name of the region is Jiaozhou (principally the same name, but not "romanized" anymore) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 It was a time of lack of silver coins and a time of a very unstable local currency (especially of the local bronze cash). This was the reason for the German Government to issue own coins. The banknotes and coins from the German Empire represented a stable currency, the acceptance was high in whole China, because the German Government deposited Silver at the German-Asian Bank matching the nominal value of the whole amount of issued money. Interesting comment. It was one of those places in the country where definately there were few coinage issues, so a shortage wouldn't be too suprising, though one would wonder why coins wouldn't start to flow in from the rest of the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gxseries Posted September 24, 2006 Author Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 ccg, wasn't this a period of time when the rest of the world were planning on how to divide China up and take them for colonies? Jeggy - thanks for sharing the pictures. Are there only two particular type of coinages for this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 ccg, wasn't this a period of time when the rest of the world were planning on how to divide China up and take them for colonies? Unfortunately I can't really answer that one well since I've never studied Chinese history. My understanding is that there might not had been much intent as the spheres of influence basically gave certain countries economic control over a considerable portions of the country, so gaining political power wouldn't be as much of an incentive as it might otherwise be. If your question relates to the issuing of coinage (as a symbol of political power in the colony), then Hong Kong would be a precedent. HK coinage started in 1865, before the Kwangtung Mint opened in 1887, so by then HK coinage (mostly silver) was circulated in Kwangtung [Guangzhou] and nearby areas. Definately currency is one of the things that define political power. Taiwan post-1895 simply used Japanese currency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aidan Work Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Kiaochow (the correct spelling in English) was actually intended to be like a German version of Hong Kong,albeit,a fortified one.The Japanese seized it as their first action in World War I. Josemartins,in the 9 years I have been working in the numismatic trade,I have only ever seen one coin - a 10c. It is a very nice design,Chinese characters on the obverse,& Kaiser Wilhelm II's Coat-of-Arms on the reverse. Aidan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ccg Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Kiaochow (the correct spelling in English) was actually intended to be like a German version of Hong Kong,albeit,a fortified one.The Japanese seized it as their first action in World War I.Aidan. And that's probably the only reason why they got into WWI, so they could gain territory. [my apologies if this post is getting more on the political side of things] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Aidan Work Posted September 27, 2006 Report Share Posted September 27, 2006 And that's probably the only reason why they got into WWI, so they could gain territory. [my apologies if this post is getting more on the political side of things] Ccg,the British & the Japanese had a very strong alliance that was formalised in 1902.The Japanese takeover of Kiaochow was very much like the New Zealand takeover of Western Samoa - a very strategic move.Western Samoa was also a German colony between 1900 & 1914.It was the British Government who told New Zealand to take over Western Samoa on behalf of the British Empire,as New Zealand is the nearest large country to Western Samoa. Aidan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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