constanius

"Quilliam purchased numbers 8, 11 and 12 Brougham Terrace, Liverpool, following his conversion, through a donation from Nasrullah Khan, Crown Prince of Afghanistan. 8 Brougham Terrace became the Liverpool Muslim Institute, the first functioning mosque in Britain" so that would make sense. Fascinating read, thanks for posting, I think you will enjoy this http://quilliamandleon.blogspot.ca/ “Read a curious letter I received from Miss Bertha Baily, Isle of Man, telling me of an extraordinary incident that happened in the Isle of Man, at a garden party, where Dr Leon ( secretary of La Society etc etc) was accosted as W H Quilliam (Abdullah Quilliam) an ex-solicitor of Liverpool, who had been struck off the rolls , outlawed and went to Turkey.I read this to all the house party as Quilliam was a cousin of Mrs Russell Rea’s, and an arrant scoundrel –Mrs RR tells me he kidnapped her grandfather (Dr Burrows) and got him to alter his will! All the Leon facts fit Quilliam, except the apparentcharacters of the two. Leon admitted he was Q, according to Miss B’s letter! This took till lunchtime !”

I think it is a Phoenix, for Liverpool.

Nice background On the other 2 jetons the Venus(female) sign & the Mars(male) sign are not mentioned, further the Venus sign has 2 projections, mirroring the framing of the 3 fleur de lis. Just further food for thought Great fun.

Thanks again Ian for all your help this is F.2274 and is signed C 4(gallows) K for Chilianus Kochuus. The dog & cock have switched sides as have the stance of the soldiers. Is it possible that Chilianus Kochuus was responsible for all three jetons pictured in this topic? This one is by H.K.

Thanks Ian, so mine is not actually listed in Mitchiner? I have Barnard and you can download it here https://www.scribd.com/document/69035557/The-casting-counter-and-the-counting-board-a-chapter-in-the-history-of-numismatics-and-early-arithmetic-by-Francis-Pierrepont-Barnard Deuxième tome du catalogue des jetons d’Ancien Régime conservés au département des Monnaies, Médailles; Thierry Sarmant & François-Ploton Nicollet, 2014: Éditions de la Bibliothèque nationale de France. List this as, Charles IX, Chambre des comptes(though it could have easily been made later, or issued under Henri III) Whenever my example was made the "PIETATE......" was Charles IX's motto and the quote "AVT VINCI......) was attributed to him, though both were used after his death. What is apparent that it is in fact 2 Helmeted soldiers with lances, hence I think Mitchiner is a bit off in his attribution, or type, in regard to "citizen" The same hand(H.K.) would likely have been responsible for both the jetons then? Barnard(in regard to a later jeton, I believe it to be F. 11811, Mars greets a warrior) speculates that the cock indicates the King and the wolf the duke of Orleans, and he states H.K. copied the obverse from a 1566 jeton albeit with alterations . The soldiers on the jetons signed HK all seem to have a spear,straight shaft which could be thrown, the unsigned all seem to have the soldiers holding a lance, shaft having a hand grip which offers protection, but useless for throwing.

Wow, some pretty wild examples love your comments though. I also cannot find VINCERE used on a French jeton.

I like Finédit more than "inconnu à Feuardent" used often here http://books.openedition.org/editionsbnf/874 where my comparison picture came from. How long it will be freely available to peruse online I do not know but it is well worth a look, lots of great images(downloadable) and rare examples of Finédit or FINE This is mentioned on the above link, "AVT VINCI VOS AVT MORI (« Il vous faudra ou bien être vaincus ou bien mourir ») Détournement subtil et ironique de la maxime latine Aut vincere aut mori (Ou bien vaincre ou bien mourir)" Google translate, "AVT VINCI VOS AVT MORI ("You will either have to be defeated or die"). Subtle and ironic subversion of the Latin maxim Aut vincere aut mori (Or conquer or die)" I thought that vinci and vincere had the same meaning, overcome, defeat, win, be victorious. Some jeton use VINCERE, some VINCI any thoughts on that Frank?

It is worn and has been nailed to a house beam(or something like) but it appears to be unlisted. The only reference I cannot check is Mitchiner, perhaps Ian might see this and check for me. Obv. PIETATE ET ISVTITIA Rev. AVT VINCI VOS (AVT) Mori It should be Charles IX of France 1560-1574, this is the nearest I can get pictorially to the reverse but the legends are wrong, any with the correct legends are pictorially different. There is some overlap with legends & images of the following monarchs but it is almost certain it belongs under Charles IX.

Very nice example, thanks for sharing.

Here is a rather special jeton PIETATE ET IVSTITIA AVT VINCI • VOS (AVT) Mori

Nothing to add to the topic, I just want to wish you both a belated "Happy New Year" & hope you both find some bargains Bonne chance mes amis.

It is Emperor Haile Selassie I and Empress Menen on the obverse, looks to be perhaps a coronation, or coronation jubilee medal.

This might help. https://www.eurocoin.co.uk/product-type/security-tokens

Merry Christmas Everyone.

Better late than never very nice, half way to the set.

Nice example, I like larger images, so much easier to study the letters

How true TDP! Bear in mind the auction result includes buyers fees, taxes, shipping etc but my share will be $3,750(hammer) - %10. Not too shabby for an under $40 purchase including shipping. Some of my other items far exceeded my expectations too.

The medal was issued in 1805, together with BHM#s 437(St. Vincent), 454(Aboukir) & 591(Trafalgar) in a small silver box, and sold individually as well. BHM511 and the others in the set, AR R; AE gilt R; Br N; Pr R. Boxed set very rare.

Classy

The closest I can find is this, which might help, but I do not like the circled part of your coin, it looks to me to be a white-metal or pewter copy often sold at museums etc. Just my opinion, hope I am wrong. The other sided of your coin needs rotating 90 degrees anti-clockwise, it is a king or noble.

You could contact this site http://english.chnmus.net/fortnightselection/node_3278.htm contact email at the botto of the page, as only an expert will be able to assist you.

I decided a few weeks ago to put my Canadian medals in an auction in Nov, The star of my small collection, hopefully, will be the HMS Terror medal. Well they have just announced the discovery of HMS Terror, which should help generate some interest https://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2016/09/12/hms-terror-from-doomed-franklin-expedition-found.html

http://www.exonumia.com/sale11/allb.htm 7 Nov. 2006 World Exonumia Mail Sale 2424. High relief SILVER Medal, bust of General Ramon Corona right signed "A.D.M." on bust / Wreath around radiant star "Por la Mohonera , Enero 28, 1873". The first battle between government troops and the insurgent Tepic Indians under Manuel Lozada was fought on Jan. 28 at Mohonera near Guadalajara. Lozada, who is recognized as the father of the modern Indian land distribution movement, was captured and shot in August. Grove-325a. Lot includes photocopies of four articles on Corona, Lozada, and this medal. 35 mm silver. Toned Unc. $100.00-125.00+Mexico. Medal for Suppression of the Tepic Indian Insurrection, 1873. You will need to look closely at the initials to see if the middle one is C or D. There is no listing in Forrer for A.D.M. so if it is a D I do not know who the engraver is. Anthony C. Morin is reputed to have ceased working circa 1860 & died 1873 that is why I was trying again to find a reference for the medal, not easy! Note, I highlighted the reference G(rove) not D. Medals of Mexico: Volumes I, and II, 1821-1971 Grove, Frank W Published by Frank W. Grove, Guadalajara,Mex. (1970, 1972) http://www.abebooks.com/book-search/isbn/0882420054/

Who is Andres Madrazo? This link appears to relate him to the Carlist Manifesto Spain, https://laalcarriaobrera.blogspot.ca/2008/03/manifiesto-carlista-de-guadalajara.html so what makes you think it is him? How does the date on the medal, 1873 Jan. 28, relate to him? That date does relate to the Governor & General Corona in Mexico, a google search for images brings a large number of them, a google search for Madrazo brings up just one picture and scant info, which seems to mean Corona is more likely depicted, especially with the date. On 28 January 1873, at daybreak, began a bloody battle, near Mojonera, between his forces and about 1,400 men under Corona. Losada was routed, leaving over 3,000 dead on the field, while the rest of his troops dispersed. Next day Corona entered Guadalajara in triumph, after having saved that city from the army of plunderers, for which he was given the title of “Hero de la Mojonera.” http://alchetron.com/Ramon-Corona-1165988-W a picture on that site. This shows he is well remembered, 2016 http://allevents.in/guadalajara/homenaje-al-h-general-ramon-corona-madrigal/586630084817868 Just trying to help you, so any info re the above questions would be a help.

In 1873, Manuel Lozada, nicknamed "The Tiger of Alica" was about to invade Guadalajara, but on 28 January that year he was defeated by the forces of General Ramon Corona. I believe that it is Corona who is depicted on the medal. I think I can see the initials A.C.M. if so this is the engraver. MORIN, Anthony C. (fl 1849-60, died 1873) Early American engraver, diesinker, chaser, seal engraver, Philadelphia. Signed dies A.C.M. initials.