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extant4cell

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About extant4cell

  • Rank
    Russian coins surfer
  • Birthday 02/06/1970

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    http://numistika.com

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  • Gender
    Male
  • Location
    Melbourne
  • Interests
    Imperial Russian Copper 1730-1840

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  • OmniCoin
    http://www.omnicoin.com/collection/extant4cell
  • BanknoteBank
    http://extant.wix.com/showcase

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  1. Thank you for your evaluation, Dwight. Glad to hear you found book etc. helpful. Happy hunting for interesting coins!
  2. Hi Sigi and Dwight, There were several mints that produced these coins (mostly by overstriking). Generally, we can devide all coins into 3 categories, by main mints' tools that were used: SPM, MM and EM. Coins produced by St.Petersburg mint tools all have 3 flags and eagles of more classical Dasier shapes. Moscow and Ekateringburg tools' coins both have 2 flags, but Moscow shape eagle (with straight left wing) easily sets Moscow tools' coins apart. There are also many eagle differences in EM coins, that are easy to notice if you study Elisabeth 5 kopecks long enough. Ones you learn to devide coins into groups, you start noticing differences in styles of letter and number shapes, and can learn to recognise coins by seeing only one side of the coin. Sigi is good at that now. Bitkin is a great basic reference, but not for identifying these coins by mints.
  3. It would be interesting to see 1759 overstrike on 1 ore. As far as I know, SM stopped production of coins in 1758 (possibly due to the fire), while SPM continued overstriking into 1759 (2 kopecks), but that had nothing to do with ore overstriking. I've heard about 1 kopeck 1759 overstrike on 1 ore, but could never confirm this. Possibly this info carried on from Brekke? Question is where it got to Brekke from and are there coins to support this claim?
  4. Very nice, Sigi, and with an early 1758 CM scroll, as far as I can see on my mobile!
  5. Nice 1 kopeck! Thank you for sharing. This is one of the nicest kopecks: The 1 Ore coins were a little bit heavier and wider, so, just as with 2 kopecks made from 2 Ore, 1 Ore were cut down in size from ~31mm to ~29mm and re-edged. But "blanks" made for 2 kopecks from 2 Ore were better heated and treated (possibly pressed before that), that resulted in very few coins keeping any signs from the original "under-coins". I am not aware of other overstrikes of Swedish copper coins. Though, there were many speculations (started by Winkler and supported by Uzdenikov) that apart from large Avesta 5 kopecks of late 18th century (such as this one) : there were some earlier, smaller 5 kopecks made outside Russia, some possibly in Sweden. Here is one of such suspects: The regular strike 5 kopecks were so light that had only about 1 kopeck worth of copper in them. There was too much temptation inside and outside Russia to use this fact into someones own advantage by forging illegal copies of these coins for circulation. Later most of such coins were destroyed at the mints by melting them. Some stayed in circulation and later were overstruck into 2 kopecks. There were some regional types that were later ovestruck into regular Russian 2 kopeck coppers. For example this one ( Moldavo-valachsk coins 1771-1774 😞 Here is an overstruck example under number 21, among other overstrikes into 2 kopecks: The design of Denga coins from 1730 and to 1754 has been influenced by Swedish emergency coinage and others, same with 1755 kopecks and with 1762 armature coinage... There was also German influence, Dutch, etc, etc... in later years:
  6. Dwight, Thank you for your purchase! I am glad to see that you found this book helpful. May many interesting coins come your way!
  7. I am not much into novodel coins. Hope to hear other coinpeople opinions...
  8. Happy New Year to you and all the members too!
  9. I think you may have posted this in the wrong section...
  10. Hi Sigi, Had another look at what you have written and at my coins. Spent a little bit of time to take better pictures of the crowns and that's what I put together to share with you and with those who may read this: It looks that the first crowns on 1757 SPM 2 kopecks already had kind of clover leaves, but more elaborated in design with empty space inside of the clover leaves. In Moscow (picture from MM 2 kopecks with nominal above the St.George) clovers became solid and distinct. On EM coins the clover features are not as clear and consistent, so I didn't put them in. Though on some EM 2 kopeck crowns I could see distinct 3 clovers. On the "ideal" pyatak (SPM tiral strike of model coins for Ekaterinburg and possibly for Moscow) there are no clovers. It resembles the imperial crown as it was pictured in 1744 publication, presented by you above. Instead of clovers there is a cross in the middle and I dare say it is repeated on the sides. The connection between crosses and crosses themselves, in combination, resemble the 3 corners' figures that later were replaced with 3 corners' clovers. This already can be recognized on the later example of SM pyatak and on MM 5 kopecks. On MM 5 kopecks, I can see 3 "normal" orientation clovers in the middle and 2 "inverted" clovers (1 on each of the sides). On EM coins 3 and smaller (in shape) 5 "normal orientation" clovers are commonly found, and 4 clovers can be found too, however rarely. Bottom line is, that there were not suppose to be any clovers on pyataks crowns, but other devices. Though, clovers they took over these devices, because it was easier to repair with clover tools and very difficult to repeat the original design with crosses. Thank you for making me look into it further, Sigi! 👍
  11. In that case clovers represent flowers or whatever else is in the same relative positions. Décor is not as important as relative shape of the crown on pyataks. If you look through 1730 dengas, there are some eagle variants that undoubtedly prove eagle male origin. ))) These are the usual (no sex determined) eagles: and this is the one I mentioned above: Though, I believe that Russian double-headed eagle represents an idea of Moscow being established as a Third Rome, and has little to do with gender theorists... ))) Have a Merry Xmas everyone! )))
  12. The pictures of the crowns above, as pictured by you, Sigi, were published in 1744 publication by Russian Imperial Academy of Science in Coronation of Elisaveta Petrovna . This is a fine choice of the crowns' pictures. I am not sure, if the clovers were running around the crown, but we can see 3 clear and 2 on the sides only partly. So, both 3 and 5 clover interpretations are possible. I don't have a better picture, but here is a pyataks' original crown as it appeared on the 1758 SPM produced 5 kopecks. It seams it has 3 clovers seen clearly and the side ones only partly, like on the actual picture of the imperial crown. As an off topic, in the same publication there was a picture of ceremonial rods with 4 headed eagles that I think may be interesting to everyone who only accustomed to seeing 2 headed eagles. )))
  13. More on the original portrait and eagle of Dassier is available in this little article, though would I write it today I would not include the 3 variants of 1757 pyataks. As I understand now they were introduced much later, after the reign of Elisaveta Petrovna and are nothing but fake. http://www.numistika.com/contributed/Skobtchenko - 2014 - Portraits of Elizabeth - Sestroretsk 5 kop 1758 - Russian Eagles by Dassier and Hedlinger.pdf
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