Maybe if you contact Pandaamerica.com - they might be able to get it for you. The last time I checked, they seemed to have one. I remember seeing a kilo panda gold coin in a coin store here as well.

Edit: found an example http://www.pandaamerica.com/details.asp?it...6&grp=1&categ=1

Or here: http://www.pandaamerica.com/details.asp?it...8&grp=1&categ=1

Dave Ramsey got hit by a question by an investor regarding the metals market. He does not appear to be an advocate.
The investor was impressed by golds run from 2002 to date,, ~$300 per oz. to ~$700 per oz.
Dave's reply was that it was not wise to look at the performance of anything in a short view. Here are a couple of things he threw at the caller.
1 - from 1952 to 2002 gold has returned ~4.2% annually. Inflation averaged about 4.2%,,,, "your money would have been better in T-bills".
2 - A professor from Berkley Ca. researched gold all the way back to ~1600,,,, annual return from that time = a rocket 1% annually.

I like Dave Ramsey and his money management principals,,, not sure if he is the best investment advisor or not, but I never buy anything that has doubled in a short period of time,, rapidly rising values tend to generate momentum that ends up surpassing the final or longer term equilibrium,,, not sure if the metals market has surpassed it's new mean yet or not, but I don't want to buy into a speeding train, at least not until it's cleared the corner on the bottom of the hill.

I believe the tenet that metals is a good vehicle to maintain wealth is probably true,,, and I'll probably buy more after it's present short term volitility has mellowed and a new, more stable mean, is presented for two to three years.

That they do, but for a significant $$$$ over bullion value, a lot more of a markup than I am willing to fork over

Haha, maybe it's because I'm your average poor college student, but I can't even see paying $700 an ounce lol. Too bad I never got that 20 dollar liberty back in 1995 like I planned....stupid draped bust dollar that I couldn't pass up! ....that tripled in value....

I don't find this surprising at all, as these "returns" are approximately equal to the rate of paper inflation during those times. I view the 1% return from 1600 to be approximately equal to the real rate of return on gold, as during most of that time period gold was currency, and inflation averaged about zero.

As for being better of in T-bills, he is just plain wrong. I just did a quick calculation, and based on annual T-bill yields from 1954-2004, if you put $1,000 in T-bills in 1954, ignoring transaction costs you would have had $13,184.47 in 2004, a compound average return of 5.187%. If you used that same $1,000 and bough gold at the pegged price of $35/oz. in 1954, that gold today would be worth $18,714.29 at $655 per oz. Seems clear which I would rather have, though I guess if your Dave Ramsey having less money would be better so you would avoid getting that much deeper in debt!

But of course that was not a choice in 1954, only T-Bills or Bonds were the investment permitted to Americans then. Gold ownership was not.

But paper can become worthless. A relative of mine died in 2002 and in their papers I found three $25 War Bonds from WWII. The Treasury stopped accruing interest on them back in the early 1980's, but will still payout on them if they are redeemed. But they are not transferable, and thus these three War Bonds are not worth the $300+, but only a nominal collector value.

And we all know that Governments default on paper and fiat money, Germany, Hungary, Russia etc. The USA with it's huge debt and foreign trade deficit may soon join them.

Even the stack of Libs and Saints I bought back in the fall are still worth about $200 more than I paid for them a few short months ago

yes
Newton
A body in motion stays in motion ( or some such in english )

I remember the 70's and 80's were gold doubled went back doubled again went back and doubled a last time
A double eagle went from 4000 belgian paper franks to 32 000 belgian paper francs at the end

I sold all above 16 000 so I was not to bad off

Technically you are correct, though you could still readily buy double eagles from most jewelers from $45 to $48 each. Assuming the higher price, that would equate to $49.61/oz, so $1,000 would buy you 20.157 oz, which at $655 would still be worth $13,202.84, which is still more than the T-bills (and you'd probably get more than $655 per oz. for common date Saints and Libs anyway!).

I still have 120 francs left from 1995 what'll that get me?

I remember when I was a little kid, a collector no less, and had money stashed, I saw a Liberty $20 coin for about $50. I remember asking the dealer for the price and being astonished that he would charge so much for a $20 coin!

Good point.



Just to be fair to ol' Dave,,, he did say up to 2002,, excluded the recent run up in his T-bill comparison. IMO Dave makes a good point with respect to viewing "investments" in the long term vs. the short term. Buyers in today's market are definitely at more risk of of loss than those who purchased at ~300 a few years ago,,, approximately $400 per oz. more at risk.

This is an aside, but illustrates one item that I disagree with Dave on and one where I think he contradicts himself abit. He once stated to a caller that it's better to pay extra towards paying off his mortage @5.25% fixed than taking the extra money and investing it in the stock market at an average (long term demonstrated) rate of return @~8%. Based his agrument on demonstrated short term risk of the market (playing both sides of fence),,, anyway, I think he may be much better at advising personnal money management and consumer restraint than investment choices.

Me, I hope they perfect cheap fusion (hydrogen cell) technology,,,, opex for mining operations plummets,,,, and gold falls through the floor.........that way I can buy more of it for the same piece of cotton fiber.

You think that will solve all problems? To find a gold mine site is one difficult issue, and yes, mines consume a ridicious amount of resources, both water and electricity. This particular SINGLE mine that I was in consumed 1-2% of the whole NSW's resources!!!

As most world mines are starting to be basaltic rock types, that often means crazy explosions, transporting rocks, grinding, making them into slurry and filter it, just for the sake of several ounces of gold. Yet people still do them because of strong demand.

And just think, back in 2000 I was paying under $400 for common date Saints in MS-63 thinking it was dirt cheap! Oh for the days of 2-3x face!

Even $400 for Saints seems dirt cheap now

Lol, I'd be content with $500 for a nice common date

Hmmmmm, that sounds like an example of the US treasury defaulting on bonds already. Watch the Yen carry trade disappear and with it the floating of new federal spending. The Yen at 0% has been the vehicle by which the fed has kept "lending" such a large chunk of our GDP to the dunces in Congress for their vote buying and bribe soliciting schemes. The Bank of Japan is no longer holding US treasury notes and that alone can turn the housing boom into a bust in short order.

Paper money can return to its actual intrinsic value in an astonishingly short time. I've sold my silver coin hoards and bought gold steadily for the past year as a means of protecting my meager savings. If the dollar regains its value and status, that would be fine with me, but I'm holding gold in case it gets worse.

Only paper money is still redeemable and only at the National Bank
Coins are no longer redeemable
At an exchange rate of 40.34 franks for an euro you would have 3 Euro

I kept some 500 FF coins which I thought rare , to find out now they go on ebay for halve their face value

So basically the only thing the 120 F will get you is what ebay pays for it

mine are paper, a 100 F note and a 20 F note, so I suppose I could get 3 euros for them!

That 20 F note is ancient
I cannot remember when I saw 20 paper franks last
They have been ugly coins for so many years
that is before the euro
Now the smallest paper is 5 euro which is 10 times that = 200 Franks

Imagine how the Italians feel! I still have a 1,000 lira note, which was worth less than $1 when I was there in 1995!

A 1000 lira was worth 10 US cent
When I was last in Italy they used postage stamps and telephone jetons as change even on the paid tollroads

Try Turkish lira - the numbers were insane. 1USD was about 1 million USD, so everyone was a millionaire

Wow, the Italian lira must have crashed, when I was there in 1995, it was about 1,600 to the dollar, which made the 1,000 note worth abouth 60 cents. I have 1.5 million Turkish lira which my good friend brought me from a trip to Turkey in 2000.