Still in it's holder for you crystaltalk...

I'll be shipping this copper twopence off to you on monday. You know in 15 years of collecting i've never actually owned one of these. I guess i finally do own one now, albeit briefly, thursday-monday. Four days!

I hope you like it... (okay i should have shrunk these!)







(I even like the chocolate tone, but i have a soft spot for George III copper cos my first coin was a George III penny).

very pretty coin!

At 41mm and 2 ounces in weight (that's regular ounces)

A very big and very heavy coin, imagine 120 of them jangling, alright thudding in your pocket. You can see why they didn't take off in a big way. 1797 only year of issue.

very nice

That's one coin I want to own some day, a cartwheel twopence

The Cartwheel 2d is thought to have been struck up to 1830 (all dated 1797) with further commerative issues after this.
Peck spent a lot of research on the 1d and 2d cartwheels and there are numerous varieties.
Finding one without an edgeknock is the key.
£1 = nearly 6.5kg

OMG, that reminded me of the massive Russian 5 kopeks coins Or rather, the Swedish and Russian copper plates

My understanding is that you can usually tell the later issues as the dies got rusty. Is that correct?

That i didn't know. I honestly thought they'd only been minted in 1797-99 and mintage had ceased around the century change over.

Although i've never focus on copper/bronze coins so my knowledge of them is next to nothing.

Although I'm a copper collector its a not series I have studied in detail.
I've just got "good rimmed examples " of both coins.

Matthew Boulton in 1797 was given the contract to produce these coins.
His mint was based in Soho, Birmingham (not the red light Soho of London).
The presses were operated by steam.
The idea behind the cartwheel coinage was to prevent counterfeiting...previous copper was being melted down and reshaped on thin flans (evasions) and these were being widely excepted by the public.

By 1805 (Battle of Trafalgar..Nelson et al) intrinsic metal value had increased to exceed face value by 30% on cartwheels.

The dies were eventually sold to W Taylor who issued his own collectors editions.

I don't think rusty dies caused the varieties.
The ship,drapery,waves,rocks,sea positions and stops were often altered.

In coin fairs in the UK I have noticed specialist collectors searching out the specimens and the price varience is tremendous for the finer examples.
Its a specialist field.....Pecks reference work covers 50 pages for the coinage of 1797.Hope this helps.

Fifty pages!

Why do copper/bronze collectors always have to go totally nuts with the varieties. Silver collectors just record things like spelling errors, over dates and more noticable lettering/design varaiants. Minor lettering positions and sizes tends to be just classed under the blanket term of "many varieties and types abound" with no real effort to persue them further. Which i always though was a sensible option, because you have to draw the line somewhere, if you don't you'll end up classing every single coin minted of a type as a different variety, as of course they are all unique to a 150th of an inch.

I agree fully but the copper collector in the UK has had specialist books written
in far greater numbers than any other denomination.
In the 19C Montaqu's Copper coins of England started the trend...Then we had Peck's Epic in the 60's followed by Freemans in the 70's.
All these together with specialists from the 70's have lifted the study of copper and bronze.
Just recently there were 8 distinct varieties for the 1881H farthing issued....my original aim was 1672 to 1956 in 1/4d's but recently I've been shot out of water due to new varieties being listed....(Spink et al eventually catch up).
There are also 8 published varieties of the 1721 1/4d ....I have the commonest in VF+ and the rarest in fine.
I am tending to move over to hammered because each coin is practically unique.
Overall I love my hobby and confess I have recently embarked on a US type set and full cent collection....but the US price for some cents cough....However I just found a 1875 IHC I bought not knowing about it a couple of years back....from an antique centre...where all his coins are £1 or £1.50.

Varieties are the reason (well one of them) why i won't dabble in copper/bronze.

Because even if you attempt the simplest of date runs you get snookered half way through when the number you have to get suddenly gets doubled.

I'm one of these collectors that likes to have them all ticked off as got. I figure well what's the point i'd never have a complete collection and do i really want 30 odd or more pennies/farthings all dated 1860?

Varieties can be a real pain in the backside. A few here and there can add spice to a series, a whole series with 16 or more varieties of each date, then count me out.


Also the reason i moved into hammered, you can just do it by type as every coin is unique.

May I be so bold to say Hi and enjoy the brief meeting with CP.2.1 ETC..I reckon.

May I be so bold to say Hi and enjoy the brief meeting with CP.2.1 ETC..I reckon.

May I be so bold to say Hi and enjoy the brief meeting with CP.2.1 ETC..I reckon.

Ey?

Peter - what are you on about?

That coin has "Take me home to INDIANA" written all over it! Can't wait to get it in my hands!

Andy....I thought there was a pseudonym lurking....my suspicious mind.

As if.

My lips are sealed.

That cartwheel should be rolling into Indiana any day now? Working on some Washers for a trip across the big pond!

Well i sent it off on either Thursday or friday last, i forget which exactly.

I've posted almost everything, except one for Kuhli which i need his address and another one for Trantor. I will remember to send the bicentenial quarter... i will remember!

The British have landed, the British have landed!
One if by land, and two if by sea...they put it on an airplane and thats how it got to me!!! The cartwheel is now a permanent resident in the State of Indiana! Will be in touch very soon concerning items coming back your way. Great to add such a nice example of this one year issue to my collection! Also I HAVE COIN PEOPLE CASH!!!

Excellent!

Glad it all arrived well, i'm always a bit nervous shipping stuff over. But i'm glad you like it.

Obvious advice but use a US coin mailer....Andy,Chris take note....s*d the insured post on coins less that £250.
ALL MY problems have been with coins flopping about in a standard 9 x 4
evelope which Mr Post worker has sussed.
There is some postie git out there with a EF 1834 shilling of mine....probably brassoed it up and put on Ebay...or drilled it for a nice bit of Bling.

The only problem i have ever had is with the use of regular envelopes. Post men will tear holes in the bottom to get the loose coins out, or they just plain old rip it open and swip the cash all together. And then have the cheek to report it as damaged in the post before they got it, so the Royal Mail then issue an official apology note acknowledging the reciever that the item was accidentally damaged in transit and how they hope this hasn't been an inconvenience to them.

I therefore now ship all of my own stuff in those bubble wrap envelopes which are a bit harder to get into. No problems thus far.

Double wrap envelopes and make it as unobtrusive as you can.....loads of sellotape.
We have had several birthday/Xmas cards containing cash going missing.....Suffolk to Yorkshire (the Kids didn't have a bank account).
Wrap & Wrap.......If you get my drift.....and White lines don't do it......unless there're freebies...(never again).

There must be a British version of the Safe T Mailer, isn't there? I usually use those for all coin mailings because they make a flat, solid package which doesn't reveal the shape of the coin inside. I just ran out and had to mail a few pieces in the old way. Hope they're going to arrive safely.

bump?

I haven't forgotten, today's payday so i'll be able to send it first thing tomorrow. If i can find an envelope i might find time to send it today, depends if i can get out of work early or not before the PO shuts.

AEtheling did those washers ever find their way to England? Looking forward to your remarks concerning what I found and sent your way. Hopefully something in that package will bring a smile to your face!

Yeah i posted it in the 'what did the mailman bring you' thread in the coin forum.

Nice palladium... precious!

I love all the washers. We'll not mention the *cough* nickels here in polite society

Oh and Trantor those coins i owe you finally went out this afternoon.