http://cgi.ebay.com/Unreal-2005-P-MS69-Fla...1QQcmdZViewItem

Why's that one worth $100+ and mine's only worth a penny ?

Yours probably isn't in a plastic tomb that has NGC MS69 on it.

-Bobby

Now that is a very hard to come by coin.

Hmmmm. I know an MS69 is not perfect and overall that is a really nice looking coin but does anyone else see a couple of things that look like flaws?

I have to say I'm not impressed by this coin. I think for that much money, Lincoln ought to be able to talk or dance or something. I wonder how much disposable income you have to have to be able to justify paying that much for a coin that is only the slightest bit better than what you can find in pocket change.

I see a few black spots on it.

Okay bidding for one 2004 penny starts at $40

I've often wondered about NGC's standards. I thought the MS70 was supposed to be unspeakably rare, but Home Shopping Channel reliably has complete sets of all SAEs in MS70, and they're always in NGC slabs. Fellow collector and I watched the HSN "coin shop" once--there were obvious bag marks and a scratch on the "MS70" specimen they showed.

Tempts me to break out the mint sets and get them graded individualy. Which is probably were this came from. (Right now 2005 sets going from $19 to 29 buy now on ebay.)

2005 mint sets have the satin finish. Supergrade coins are easy from the sets but tough form regular business strikes. That being said, buy that'san expensive cent!

Ahh, forgot about the new satin grade. Is this continuing with the 2006?

How can NGC tell the difference between a satin finish cent from a mint set and a satin finish "looking" business strike.?

The reason is simple it's called "Registry Sets". You gotta pay to have the best.

Amazing, already 11 bids and up to $158.

I believe the mint plans on using the satin finish on mint sets for the forseeable future and definitely for 2006.

Satin sets have a different kind of luster, less mirrored and more frosty than the regular business strikes.

Satin sets have a different kind of luster, less mirrored and more frosty than the regular business strikes.


Right,,, so how can they tell the one in the link is not a mint set cent... it sure looks frosty to me. I'd like to see a side by side pick of the MS69 "business strike" cent in the link and a mint set cent. Not sure I could see a difference.

You mean like that it reads "CENT" on the reverse and not "HUNDRED DOLLARS"?

Actually this coin is from pocket change. There are still a few people who collect
current coin. Just as with ALL other collectors these people are seeking complete-
ness, quality and rarity. With late date Lincolns this will translate to varieties and
gems. Some might think that this coin is "only the slightest bit better..." but that's
usually only because they haven't actually tried to find one themselves. They don't
know that it's possible to go through an entire bag of some issues (like '71 25c)
and not find a coin better than MS-62. With a little bad luck you can go through
tens of thousands of new Lincolns without finding anything even close to an MS-69.
When you consider that 99.99% of coins made since 1964 have just gone straight
into circulation without so much as a glance from collectors it's incredible that any
high grade coins exist in modern times.

Does it really make a lot more sense to pay a $20,000 grade premium on a mor-
gan dollar that has a few dollars worth of metal in it than it does to pay a $100
premium on a coin with 1/2c of zinc in it. You can parse these numbers any way
you want but collectors are going to collect what they want. And as long as the
investors keep buying the Morgans and the new hobby base keeps buying the Lin-
colns, then the newer coins will remain a much better deal.

Cladking,
Of course everyone should collect what they want and pay what the market demads. However, if I could pull an MS-62 Morgan dollar out of change today for face value, then yes, I would say that a person is a little crazy to pay $20,000 for an MS-69. Same goes true for the Lincoln. Price is nothing more than supply/demand, so $158 is obviously the "correct" value of this coin. That's why I was wondering how much disposable income someone would have to have to make that worth it. After reading your post, I would have to add a second question. How much free time would someone have to have to go through tens of thousands of new Lincolns studying them for tiny imperfections?
Crazy isn't all bad, and everybody should have something that they are a little crazy about. For me, it's good beer....and it is damn hard to get over here.
Dave

When you get right down to it "crazy" is what collectors do best. Just because Morgans aren't in circulation doesn't make it any more productive to horde them. It's not as though we're really assembling collections of things that would naturally be together. We may feel we're imposing order on a chaotic world but how natural is it for an uncirculated example of a coin that circulated heavily to be right next to one made a few years earlier at a different mint. These things never happened by chance and collectors impose their own view of order on things.

Part of the natural order changed many years ago when everyone decided new coins weren't worth collecting anymore. Now it just seems crazy to go through pennies seeking finer examples or scarce varieties. I used to drive from bank to bank (sometimes in far off states) looking at the new coins as a sort of spot check. If I found a few nice coins then I'd get quantities to search. Mostly I'd just drive around since it was pretty tough to find much of interest.

Coin collecting has always needed somebody to set aside current coins for the future. And up until the last couple generations most collectors would set aside at least a little for the future. These coins always formed the basis of future collections simply because they were pristine. Those which were made in small quantities would become valuable rarities in time. Many other coins have been protected by a combination of their nature and pure chance. People horded good silver in times of uncertainty and this coin would become lost only to be found unworn many years later, banks used brand new or circulated coin as backing for their notes and it sat safely tucked in vaults. In modern times these forces are far weaker. It's hardly unusual for a coin to spend its life in circulation only to be recalled by its issuing authority and destroyed to build refrigertors or surgical instruments. US coins haven't suffered this fate to a large degree yet but attrition and wear on many of our coins is extreme. Many issues are almost impossible to find because they weren't in mint sets. Even the long unloved mint sets are suffering from very high attrition and won't always provide an ample supply of most of these recent coins.

Time is a funny thing. None of us has enough of it but we all seem to be able to make it for what we deem important. While I think 2005 cents are well worthy of whatever time someone else wishes to expend on them, I have little interest in looking myself. Don't get me wrong, if I see a really great coin in change I'll try to figure out where it came from and get more, but I won't go chasing around for them because I don't have the time.