This thread has been quiet for awhile, but I was photographing some coins from storage and came across this Mexican 1 Onza from 1985. I do know the history of this coin and the approximate condition of stoarge. It was struck in 1985 at the Mexico City mint. Okay that seems obvious, but there is more to the story. A friend, Federico Clavaeria was allowed to run the press and buy the coins he struck. Freddie was an imigrant (I don't know if he still alive, he could be) who grew up in California. He was in the US Army in WWII, a photographer in an information unit along with Jonathan Winters (yes, the comedian and they remained good friends). Freddie started a Mexican food business after the war in Santa Barbara, La Tolteca. He became a successful businessman and a serious collector of Mexican coins. When his collection sold in the 1980s, it was considered one of the finest ever assembled. He bought a Rolls Royce, among other things, with the proceeds from the sale.

Because of Freddie's status and collecting interests, he had access to the mint as an honored guest and was able to stike the coins, buy them, and bring them back in rolls where he passed them out to the members of the Santa Barbara Coin Club one evening. Mine (pictured here) went home and into a coin cabinet I use for my odds and ends. The cabinet is molded palstic (I bought it in Oslo in 1974) with felt pads in the trays. The onza has been in one of those trays since 1985, eagle side down against the felt. The eagle side remains blazing white. The obverse has been up and exposed to circulating air inside the case. The case has been kept in a closet in either Santa Barbara or Santa Cruz (4 different houses). Relatively mild climate. Certainly the extremes of heat and cold in a house that is sometimes empty during vacations, but generally between 50 and 80 degrees, moderate humidity to dry.

The obverse is beginning to tone around the edges into the fields, the gold toning associated with the onset of toning. Its not a scientific study, but its as close to a life history of a single coin as one can get, with the exception of a proof set that you bought directly from the mint.

Awesome story.

Thats very interesting!

Cool story Bill. The personal attachment between collector and coin is compelling. These types of experiences are beginning to stir a slightly greater interest in provenence within my soul.

I was curious about toned coins and I have been meaning to get my hands on the coin chemistry book, but I keep putting it off. I understand the process that most toned coins undergo to become toned coins, but I was wondering if artificial toning perhaps by heat is also possible. I've heard that it is just another way people try to alter coins, and if anyone has any tips how to spot these, that would be great.

Thank you!!!!

I'm not an expert by far, but most of the "naturally" toned coins I've seen (that are certified) present specific patterns (ie - book toning). Coins that I've seen that were admitted Art. toned tended to present misc patterns, or had apparent residue or a film on them (probably from some gunk that they were either dipped into, or that was baked on them.

I'd also guess that an expert could probably impart these natural toning patterns into a coin relatively easily,, and i'm not sure anyone could tell, including the experts. From what I can tell it's a matter of experience viewing many many toned coins, probably some experience in creating toned coins and recognizing AT patterns, and a lot of gut feel and guess work.

The heated ones tend to have really wild colors before they turn black. You can do that on your own stove (if you're over 18 )

Thanks for the advice. I'll think I'll experiment a little and see if I can't start finding some characteristics to look for as far as heat induced toning. And yes, I am over 18.

Thanks

I agree. Just last week I got a 1st century Durotriges billon coin which has been toning for a few millenia, give or take a while. Billion is debased silver, so the process should have eaten the coin into a veritable gob if the few hundred years estimate was accurate......ahaha

Interesting! I didn't know this thread existed in here

I would have to say that the author of the book referred to in this thread is quite mistaken regarding toning. As stated previously, natural toning is a natural process and not damage. It is artificial toning that is considered artificial treatment or alteration. And "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is very true when it comes to toning. Some people think that toning is very beautiful in many cases, and will pay a premium for it. Others believe that paying a premium for toning is ridiculous and refuse to do so. Both collectors are correct in their own right. Just as some people will pay a premium for a minor variety or error, while others won't. Dependent upon the individual interested in the coin, toning is either beautiful or ugly, worth a premium or a deduction, but with regards to grading, natural toning is objectively not damage.

Artificial toning is not truly damage neither. It is technically artificial treatment, often seen as alteration, and as such, many TPGs will not grade coins that they believe are artificially toned, while those that they believe are naturally toned are found in abundance. Technically, coins that have been artificially treated, should recieve a grade of no higher than MS63, according to ANA Grading guidelines. Furthermore, a coin should neither recieve a grade higher than an MS66 if the original color is not apparent, according to the same guidelines.

With that in mind, it makes one wonder how PCGS could have graded a 1967 Lincoln cent as MS67 RB, when the MS67 designation requires fully original color This kind of grading/pricing manipulation is one reason why I have problems with (even top named) TPGs. In the same sense, neither can you possibly have an MS67+ coin of any kind (in accordance with ANA Standards) if there is any toning apparent. Toning in and of itself requires a grade ceiling of MS66, according to ANA Grading Standards.

It is when standards like these are baltantly ignored, even by ANA members (and the ANA itself), that the market manipulation of varied players in the industry becomes apparent. And, in my opinion, it is this manipulation that becomes so apparent that leads to such witch hunts as the tone bashing that we see occur at times.

Yes, I beleive that toned coins should bring a premium above the true and actual grade pricing in the market if the toning truly is natural and has an attractive effect. But, such toned coins should never grade higher than MS66, and toning could very well degrade a coin, because once toning hits a coin, it should automatically fall to the MS66 grade.

The TPGs, in my opiniopn, realizing this, have ignored this point in the ANA Grading standards, and groups of followers on both ends of the specturm have helped to promulgate two erroneous views on the subject of natural toning: 1)That toning is damage and degrades the coin; and, 2)That toning enhances both the beauty and the grade of the coin.

The happy medium lies just somewhere in between the two, so long as the ANA Grading Standards are adhered to.