The bill authorizing the new President dollar coins says....Beginning January 1, 2007, and ending upon
the termination of the program under
paragraph (8), the Secretary annually shall
mint and issue such `Sacagawea-design' $1
coins for circulation in quantities of no less
than 1/3 of the total $1 coins minted and
issued under this subsection.''

So, the mint "MUST" produce 1 sackie for every 2 Pres dollars produced during the entire program (10+ yrs).

If the Pres. coins are anywhere near as popular as the state quarters we will have Billions of sackies sitting around doing nothing.

It wouldn't surprise me to see the BEP cut back on $1 and $2 note production to encourage the use of the coins.

I'd love to see a glut of sackies. Then maybe people would spend them instead of hoarding them. They are a fine unit of currency, that no one ever uses, but should. And because no one ever uses them, I can never get them. And I'd love to have them and use them, because I'm sick of $1 bills cluttering up my billfold...

Is any rationale for the 1:2 ratio of SACs to P-Dollars offered? Who thinks up these things? Recent date SACs are basically being sold as collector items as it is - so if the P-dollars are popular, we need more of something that is not used?

The general consesus that I get is that the dollar coin will not be adopted as long as the dollar bill is around. Once there is no dollar bill, the coins get used and everybody gets used to them and lives happily ever after.

Dollar Bill + Dollar Coin = Dollar Bill used.

Is this potential SacFlood an attempt to achieve acceptance by overwhelming us with sheer numbers? Will we all be so happy collecting P-dollars that we grow to love the dollar coin regardless of the dollar bill? Could the dollar bill sue for discrimination?

Dollar Bill + Lots of Dollar coins that we collect = Dollar Coin used?

As it is, I got off my SAC and SBA usage kick when I finally got tired of explaining what they were to people. I still get a kick out of using Kennedy halves though because they are sometimes assumed to be a dollar coin (I mean gee, they are so big).


An interesting experiment in behavioral economics would be to determine how much more than a dollar a SAC would need to be worth in common exchange for it to make a difference.

I think it is insane! To link the 'regular' coin mintage, which is not ordered by banks and not used by business or consumers and has not even been minted for ciculation most years, is going to result in a flood of Sackies sitting at the reserve.

If we don't eliminate the dollar bill, this will be an incredible waste. Even if we do eliminate the bill, we may have enough dollar coins minted in the next few years to meet demand for the next 50 years.

I'd like to see a dollar coin in actual use too but, the problem is that you are almost certainly never going to see them unless banks start stocking them and big businesses start using them and that is not going to happen unless their other option (the note) goes away. It doesn't matter how many are sitting at the reserve gathering dust, you still won't see them in change.

I like the dollar coin until you want a soda or something. A lot of machines still won't take it. Try going to a laundry place with a handful of Sacs. Not going to work.

I'd welcome the dollar coin IF the entire country was ready to accept it over the dollar bill. Just a pain to use right now.

Well they still will use them in Peru or Bolivia or whatever that South American country was that now uses dollars instead of their own currency. The complaint by the sponsor of the bill was that people don't use the dollar coin because banks won't stock them, but he fails to realize that banks won't stock them because no one asks for them! It's not a bank conspiracy to not use dollar coins, it that Americans won't use them as long as the dollar bill is being printed. Look at Canada and every other nation that's moved to higher value coins!

In the factory I work in ALL the machines (about 60-70 thru the plant) take the dollar coins. And I use them everyday I can. My problem is when I go to the bank they often don't have any dollar coins to give me and the machines only give out quarters as change.

I went to the Post office yesterday but couldn't use the stamp machine because it was out of dollar coins to use for change.

I have not seen a Coke or Pepsi machine in sometime that will not take the new dollar coins. Even many retailers with the U-Scan things will take them, but they WILL NOT take $2 bills unless you hand them to them. I have only seen one machine, at Sears, that took $2 bills.

There was a glut of Sacies the day the mint first started pressing them. There was a glut of SBA's the day the mint created them. The glut has continued to get larger with every dollar coin minted.

Get the message through all of your heads.

THE GENERAL PUBLIC DOES NOT WANT A DOLLAR COIN!!!! PERIOD!!!

Quit making them.

Just start a rumour that the Bird Flu is spread on Fecal Bacteria Bucks, and everybody will want dollar coins

The Dollar coin saves tax dollars, but the gov't is too scared to make the switch, kind of like the metric system, but it saves money—seigniorage is a great thing- but we have had this discussion many times.... anyway I digress.

Ecuador uses the dollar coin as its main single unit currency (and they are getting nasty, I have some from my last trip there), and they will need at least another 200,000,000 over the next few years, to replace, and supplement the half billion sent in 2000. Panama and El Salvador are switching to the dollar coins from US paper as well. A use for the sacs will be found in US transit/postal machines and through foreign governments until at least 2010 so the sacs should be fine even with the Prez mintages for collectors.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I'm from Texas, What country are you from?

Yup, you beat me to it. The funny thing about Ecuador using the dollar currency is that they have issued there own fractional coins in "centavos".

Just playing with some numbers.

If the Pres $ are 1/4 as popular as the state quarters the mint will produce maybe 8 billion over the term of the program. That means they must also make 4 billion Sackys too.
We still have Sackys in the reserve from the 1 Billion they made in 2000 and that was 5 years ago. There's gonna be enough to last most of our lifetimes.

Well, then the sacky will have truely lived up to its name.

In 100 years, they are going to try and recreate the great 'finding' of Morgan Dollars. Get ready for GSA Sackies in 2105.

Absolutely true. If people liked using the silly little things, they would have taken off like a rocket as soon as they were introduced. The dollar note is dearly loved by those of us who handle cash. Coins suck for my kind of business. My cash drawer contains no coins unless someone pays with them, then I exchange them with a neighboring vendor who uses them.

A note counter weighs a fraction of what a coin counter weighs and costs so little that I can have one in each place I count cash. Coins are a royal PITA to handle and are only needed for collecting sales tax anyway. I solve that problem by rounding prices up slightly and simply paying the sales tax out of my gross.

I once had a glut of Sacs. To solve that problem, I spent both of them and have gone out of my way to avoid getting more ever since then. ahaha

Anyway, all this uncalled-for coin production is simply part of the expansion of the money supply. The PTB are intent on bringing about hyperinflation as soon as they can manage it.

Which hasn't happened in over 20 years, wierd huh..
We should do like the old Bahamas 50cent note and print some of those bad johnnies for the US public.

Ecuador will use up the current 2000 glut by 2010. period dot. In fact they have requested another 200,000,000 (this doesn't count any US Transit and postal usage). We had to deal with Colombian counterfeits as well as the drug runners while working there. Sieniorage, is a great thing. And like I noted earlier the dollars are taking off in Panama and El Salvador as well. The notes are not holding up. Rumour has it that Liberia might order some as well, but that is still a rumour.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Forum Alpha Breeder Male

Oh, how silly of me. Of course our mint is supposed to provide coinage for foreign countries. That must be in the Constitution somewhere. Keep up the wishful thinking about the dollar note going away. It'll only happen when the $100 dollar bill replaces the Lincoln cent, which may be soon enough.

We have done it for years. We make license plates for other countries, coins, stamps, guns, bombs, planes, even food for countries like North Korea.
The constitution doesn't say anything about alot of stuff, but we still do it per US Code. It is great reading. Try it sometime. Besides we make money giving the coins to other countries for circulation, not to mention the stabilisation of the American dollar. I will admit the nasty colour they turn when actually in use is a bit "unsanitary" looking.


Maybe you shouldn't travel, it is a big scary world out there and the black helicopters might get you... I kid, I kid...

So kid, I still ask, where is that huge inflation you keep talking about, and how about the 50 cent bill-should we do it, it seems like you should love it.
And it would be cheaper for strippers to stick in G-strings, and not as nasty as those Canadian loonies you have to throw at them.

Or do we need to just have the entire USA run off "Dollar stores" or las tiendas con toda a un dollar LOL

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Seven Continents Down, None to Go

Actually others make more us these days. Yesterday whilst at the Post Office waiting to pick up a registered lettre, I perused through all the myriad of merchandise they manage to peddle off as though they are a retail establishment. Upon a quick glance of their voluminous selection of stuffed animals, key fobs etc, it was readily apparent that most of everything is now manufactured by dollar a day Chinese labourers. Maybe we should send them the Sackie bucks to pay them for their 12 hour days.

Sacky...The new World currency.

Yeah, everywhere but the USA !

Wow all mine sells is shipping supplies.

In my old town, the used to have a separate section of other crap, it was like a store within a store!

And stamps are going up to 39-cents in January, but there is no inflation though...

Well from 5 cents 150 years ago, to 39 cents next January, I would not call that "double digit" yearly inflation (especially based on the CPI), but that again that is my old physics math coming back again... It should cost a dollar to mail a letter in America anyway, that way 28plain doesn't need to use coins. I kid, I kid as Triumph would say

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, I was told there would be no math

Actually the PO reported they are back in the black again. You know I didn't mind when they had a little bit of stuff like shipping supplies and a few knicknack items, but gees oh pees it is like a variety store and the stuff is right out in traffic, or rather the long line so you have to wind around it to mail your stuff now.

How about from 3-cents just 50 years ago? By the way, when you get your heating bill this winter, remind us again how inflation isn't a problem...

I just got my heating bill. And it is only going to get worse

I don't have a heating bill, besides, natural gas is a commodity, just like gold or orange juice. Besides, I make more money in my gas stocks then I would pay in heating costs anyway-but that is my planning. To each their own LOL

Stagnation or deflation can be even bigger problems. I've dealt with bad deflation in Belize and Venezuela (pre Chavez) and those can also be problems.

Inflation under 3.5% is not a problem, and current inflation trends are due to fuel costs, not money supply as suggested above, and it is still not inflationary enough to cause a change in the money supply.

As for the stamp examples noted above- Sending a letter from Miami, to Seattle for 39c is a bargain to begin with.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Watching you from 30,000 feet

how about sending a letter from the USA to me, in the Netherlands, for only 80 cents....

Actually, we have quadruple digit inflation now. Currently, it's at 3,125% with gold at $500+ per ounce. The most reliable indicator of inflation is the price of gold, according to some economists. Gold is real money no matter what the central bankers and politicians would have us believe.

Maybe we should gold plate all those sackys

Still waiting for an answer on the 50cent bill 28...

Actually if you only use the value of gold and turn that value into the "inflation" indicator, gold has deflated from the horrid Carter price of $2000 an ounce- IN today's dollars of course.

Gold is only money if I or anyone else is willing to accept if for payment of a service. I do like my gold "bling" but I wouldn't trade it for anything at the moment, so it is decoration, not currency.

Ciao, and Hook 'em Horns,
Capt-AWACS, Like Freedome Thank a Veteran, Like Reading Thank a Teacher

Bustchaser I couldn't disagree with you more! People can and will use the Sackie and a great number of folks have just give up looking for them as the banking industry WILL NOT call out coinage THEY don't want or need. My own bank has asked me repeatedly to get Sackies for them to give to the flood of customers who request them. I tried to get my branch bank to get me a case by calling the main bank and offering to pay up front and they still said NO! Coins involve shipment costs, labor costs, and storage space. The only reason Sackies are not around is the failure of the banking industry, or should I say GREED of the banking industry, who claim to serve their customers but ONLY serve themselves and their stockholders. It is nothing more than the rich taking care of the rich right down to the last penny! Don't try to blame the American public for NOT using what they CAN"T get!

Did you offer to buy a $5,000.00 bag of them? That's the least the bank can buy from the Fed, you know. I'll get you a bag from the Federal Reserve Bank here in Richmond if you will pay for them plus armored car delivery. That's what your bank would have to pay. Who covers the cost of delivery?

Banks are not public service institutions, they're businesses. If their customers (more than one) who use coinage in commerce wanted Sacs they would have them all the time. Face it, the "flood of people" asking for them want one each to use for whatever purpose. You can't expect them to get you a box of them when they would have to buy a bag and roll you a box. They would be stuck with the rest and it would cost them money. Since they won't take a loss, they're "greedy", huh?

Being frugal with the shareholders' money isn't greed, it's taking care of business. That too few people want the silly little dollar coins is no failure of the banking industry, it's a failure of federal politicians and bureaucrats to learn enough about commerce that they can issue coins needed for commerce. Here's something you may not know: Banks get rolled coin from armored car companies, who only handle coins which are in demand for commerce. The armored car companies don't ask for dollar coins for their commercial customers (banks and large retailers) because there's no demand for them. That's why banks have to request dollar coins from the Fed. The Fed will only send them via armored car and there's a fee involved.

Of course, you could go to a Federal Reserve Bank and buy a bag yourself. Who's stopping you?

CrystalK64,

I do indeed agree with one line of your statement above...

"the banking industry WILL NOT call out coinage THEY don't want or need."

The reason for this, however, is not simply profit for the rich, but because (as you stated yourself) banks DON'T need them. The reason that they don't need them is that the general populace does not now nor has it ever wanted to carry them around for everyday commerce. The FACT--that's right, I said FACT) is that most banks can't give the damn things away to a majority of their customers. There is not now, nor has there ever been a reason other than seinorage for a dollar coin in this country.

The dollar coin has been a failure as a circulating denomination in this country for over 200 years! It has never done anything except sit around and take up space. This is why there are such huge gaps in the minting history of the coin. It is why the mint time after time has been forced to melt such large quanities of them.

A reason I hear is that it will save some $$$ Anybody know....how long does a $1 bill last and how much does it cost to print? How many $1 bills will have to be reprinted to match the circulating lifespan of a SAC?

It depends on what you mean by "doing nothing". When the SBA first came out, they minted many more than the demand required. When the Sac came out, they made the same error.

However, the SBAs were used, to the point that by 1999 they had to mint more to meet the admittedly slight demand. The same demand exists for the Sac.

The Sac might have gained acceptance had they actually been as available as their mintage allowed. Unfortunately, for a coin minted in the gazillions in 2000 it was hard to find. Also, as long as people have the previous option available and cannot get the replacement in quantity, they won't bother to change.

Why would they? even if they wanted to, getting the dollar coin was a frustrating process, and dollar bills were and are available in abundance.

<A reason I hear is that it will save some $$$ Anybody know....how long does a $1 bill last and how much does it cost to print? How many $1 bills will have to be reprinted to match the circulating lifespan of a SAC? >

These are rough figures

A dollar note costs about 7 cents to make.
A dollar coin (Sac size and comp) costs about 18 cents to make

The dollar note lasts about 18 months
The dollar coin lasts about 30 years.

During the 30 year life of the coin it doesn't have to be replaced so it's total cost is 18 cents.
During that 30 years the note would have to be replaced 20 times. Even if you assume no increase in printing costs, the dollar note will cost $1.40 during that time period.

All true. Halves were a more important coin in commerce until silver content was removed from the coins. After gold was declared "property of the Federal Reserve", silver dollars had a brief period of utility during the depression, but once inflation resumed, paper one dollar notes resumed the popularity they had enjoyed before 1929.

One objection to the dollar coin was its size. When the Ike was discontinued and the SBA was launched, it became apparent that size was only one reason the public didn't like using a one dollar coin. Inflation has made the dollar such a small amount of money that having several coins in one's pocket for small purchases is an annoyance rather than a convenience.

The carriers (armored car companies) do not buy half dollars or dollars from the Fed anymore because neither coin is in demand by retail merchants. The coins are not popular with retail merchants because they are not popular with the cash handling public.

As coin lovers, we are more likely to want examples of all the coins which are currently in production than are most people. I stopped liking halves and dollars once silver was out of the picture. Halves and dollars were used for saving when they were made of silver. Silver coins were great for hoarding because they have an intrinsic value which survives inflation. With base metal coins, hoarding is a way of losing value because base metal coinage becomes worth less as inflation proceeds.

So, when has fiscal responsibility been a guiding factor in the government?

The total amount of money saved over the estemated 25 to 30 year life span of a year's production of dollar coins--if the government did withdraw the paper alternative would not pay for a week's interest on the national debt. (Most studies I have seen say not a day's worth!)

The bottom line is that manymore people in this country don't want to use a dollar coin then do. That has not changed in over 200 years. As long as that situation exists then the change should not be forcably made--irregardless of what we collectors (yes, even me too) would like to see.

Edited to add:

Sorry for the double post. I was actually attempting to edit a typing error in the original and ended up quoting myself instead.

The origional version of the bill as Rep. Castles wrote it included a mandate that banks activly distribute the new coins or lose thier FDIC status. This was the first thing to get changed too.

And it should have been changed! The govenment has no right to force private businesses to lose money for the "privilege" of providing a service which their customers don't want.

ENOUGH!!! Just tell me what to do with this pile of 300+ Sackys I'm sitting on!

After I read this yesterday I went to the Quickie Mart and got a couple of 20 oz. pops to take to work. I put three Sackys on the counter cause I figure I didn't need 'em anymore and the girl acted like she'd never seen one before in her life.

I then stopped in the bank to deposit paycheck and told the tellers who watch out for things for me and they all laughed. They said the higher ups in their bank hated them and discouraged use of them.

I've used them with no problems around here. I get bunches of them from my mom since she works for the Post Office.