I just don't want to look like an idiot walking around with a book
Full Version: Taking books to coin shows?
Does anyone here take, let's say, a Redbook with them when they attend a show? I have a rather poor memory and cannot for the life of me recall on a moment's notice the price of an 1894-O Morgan dollar. Is it considered tacky or out of place to do so?
I just don't want to look like an idiot walking around with a book
I just don't want to look like an idiot walking around with a book
I just don't want to look like an idiot walking around with a book
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So what! It's your money!
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So what! It's your money!
If its a big show i like to have a up to date copy of the greysheet. I have seen people with Redbooks and find nothing wrong with it.
I know when I find a coin show to go to I will have a backpack with my redbook, a spiral notebook and possibly some other notes/refrences. This also doubles as a way to take the coins home... without just sticking them in my pocket
I think I would have these more so so I dont get Dups as Stujoe showed in his recent post.
But I do this at every "show" I go to. Easier to carry all the pamplets and such you get... expeacialy at car shows.
I dont beleieve anyone would have any problems with that.
-Bobby
I think I would have these more so so I dont get Dups as Stujoe showed in his recent post.
But I do this at every "show" I go to. Easier to carry all the pamplets and such you get... expeacialy at car shows.
I dont beleieve anyone would have any problems with that.
-Bobby
Ofcourse! Conros is nearly allways with me. That saves from buying duplicates.
If it's a big show I will routinely bring my Overton and Akers books, just to make sure I know what I am doing before I do it!
I typically take a recent CoinValues magqazine with my needs circled.
In that , I will usually throw in a print out I have on grading points of my 1900 to present coins. I used to take along a print out of my entire tracking spreadsheet but that is overkill now that I don't need near as many coins.
In that , I will usually throw in a print out I have on grading points of my 1900 to present coins. I used to take along a print out of my entire tracking spreadsheet but that is overkill now that I don't need near as many coins.
got my greysheets in a binder.....take them with me
QUOTE(Stujoe @ Oct 10 2005, 04:31 PM)
I typically take a recent CoinValues magqazine with my needs circled.
I usually just rip out the pages I need and I highlight the values.
You might want to think about this. Since many (most) Redbook prices are vastly "optimistic" I have often seen the quoted price immediately go up to match book value when a new collector opened up a Redbook in front of a dealer.
QUOTE(bustchaser @ Oct 10 2005, 03:41 PM)
You might want to think about this. Since many (most) Redbook prices are vastly "optimistic" I have often seen the quoted price immediately go up to match book value when a new collector opened up a Redbook in front of a dealer.
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That thought has crossed my mind about CoinValues (formerly Trends) since their prices are sometimes a little, umm 'optimistic' shall we say.
So I stick it in a two pocket folder with the other papers I carry around. It is much nicer now that they have gone to the regular magazine format. I usually also have 2 loupes in one of my front pockets and a pen in my back pocket.
i try to get a grey sheet or I use the redbook...or when im strapped for cash I know exactly what i want and what i want to pay for it....
I've never taken a book with me. Too bulky, and it looks weird.
I see people walking around with red books or canadian catalogs at coin shows all the time. I think it's perfectly acceptable.
I have taken a small notebook with me in the past, loaded with notes and dates & prices. Just became too unruly.
So I modified a 2003 Redbook, coping the coin values price guide, cutting out each price grouping and attaching it to the appropriate page in the Redbook. Now I have an up to date price guide, with the Redbook info all in front of me. And I usually offer 25% back of Coin Values prices.
So I modified a 2003 Redbook, coping the coin values price guide, cutting out each price grouping and attaching it to the appropriate page in the Redbook. Now I have an up to date price guide, with the Redbook info all in front of me. And I usually offer 25% back of Coin Values prices.
Don't sweat what other people think ... carry whatever book you need to the show. About 1/3 of the buyers at our local coin shows bring some kind of reference materials with them ... greysheets, Redbook, a wad of post-it notes. Heck there were two guys there earlier this month, each carrying a new Krause with them, and those are about the size of a large city's phone directory !!!
I used to carry either CQR or "Penny Prices" with me when I was into buying early US coppers.
I used to carry either CQR or "Penny Prices" with me when I was into buying early US coppers.
So if I am to use a Redbook about what percentage should I add or subtract from the listed price?
I may have to go buy a CoinValues magazine this weekend. All I have for price reference is the Redbooks ('04 & '06), '05 Bluebook, and a Coins magazine.
Now that I have a scanner I may just copy the pages and place them in a folder as to not attract attention to the specific book I'm carrying.
I may have to go buy a CoinValues magazine this weekend. All I have for price reference is the Redbooks ('04 & '06), '05 Bluebook, and a Coins magazine.
Now that I have a scanner I may just copy the pages and place them in a folder as to not attract attention to the specific book I'm carrying.
QUOTE(Burks)
Does anyone here take, let's say, a Redbook with them when they attend a show?
I agree that there is a lot to know and a memory aid is fine. You look in the Red Book and the coin is $28 in VF, so $25 to $30 is in the ballpark and you are comfortable talking about the price with the dealer.
I made up an old Red Book into a Show Guide. Price per se is irrelevant because price comes from Grade and Mintage. So, I had this 20 year old Red Book and I would past current ads into it and made margin notes and such. I took it to two shows about 10 years ago and that was it.
My feeling is that the show is your examination. You don't do your homework in the test. Take the test.
"You gotta know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away. Know when to run. You never count your money when your sittin' at the table. There'll be time enough for countin' when the dealin' 's done."
You pay $100 for a $25 coin and you learn something.
Many's the time that the $25 sold for $100 was resold for $1000.
What I mean is that the larger the show, the more correct the pricing and any errors tend to be in the buyer's favor. In other words, material of all kinds is more likely underpriced for variety and the collector who has made himself an expert will profit from the purchase, regardless of the arguable "price" today.
So, I stopped taking the security blanket.
Mikey
"no blankee"
Dealers spot the suckers by their Greysheets.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Oct 10 2005, 08:41 PM)
You pay $100 for a $25 coin and you learn something.
Many's the time that the $25 sold for $100 was resold for $1000.
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Personally, I don't care much about that additional $975 that my heirs are going to cash out after I am dead. I am more concerned with the $75 worth of coins I couldn't buy! Hence, I take a price guide with me.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Oct 10 2005, 09:42 PM)
Dealers spot the suckers by their Greysheets.
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Explain Michael, what do dealers really think of someone with a greysheet and why?
QUOTE(Dan769)
Explain Michael, what do dealers really think of someone with a greysheet and why?
Numismatics is a small world. Everyone knows everyone. If you are a dealer, then the other dealers know who you are. If you are a "new dealer" you get known soon enough.
Dealers are "people people." Collectors are "object people." A dealer will size up a person immediately and know soon whether they are really a local dealer enjoying their first ANA or a collector with a Greysheet looking for the dealer price or whatever.
When two real dealers talk price, yes, the Greysheet or CDN or whatever comes out so that everyone is on the same page. Basically, however, they validate themselves to each other by a host of non-verbal communication signals.
Even I can spot the collector with a Greysheet and I am just a guy who writes about the hobby. They look like they have never been on a bourse floor in their lives. No matter where they look, they never see anyone they know. Dealers are happy to meet them because they buy the stuff for "ten back of bid" that no other dealer bought in the last two days because everyone has all they need right now. Then, along comes the collector with a Greysheet, a fish with a hook in his mouth looking for a dealer with a rod and reel.
Myself, I am just a guy who writes and I buy stuff that I write about and I pay whatever they ask. Sometimes I counteroffer for convenience, $25 instead of $27.50. Mostly, I do not pretend to be something I am not.
If a dealer could not spot the fish, he would have been out of business a long, long time ago.
I usually just carry a small notebook with the top 10 coins that I'm looking for. I have the price ranges for each that I formulate from the Graysheet and eBay and two or three dealers that I trust. That gives me the approx price I'm willing to pay for an average coin in a certain grade. I find it hard to look for more than a few coins at a show. There's just so much to do - exhibits, people to talk to, books to browse.
I just memorize the approximate price range... 
Afterall, I have been staring at my catalogue book for so long... can't say that I didn't learn anything out of it...
Afterall, I have been staring at my catalogue book for so long... can't say that I didn't learn anything out of it...
QUOTE(Art @ Oct 10 2005, 10:09 PM)
I usually just carry a small notebook with the top 10 coins that I'm looking for. I have the price ranges for each that I formulate from the Graysheet and eBay and two or three dealers that I trust. That gives me the approx price I'm willing to pay for an average coin in a certain grade. I find it hard to look for more than a few coins at a show. There's just so much to do - exhibits, people to talk to, books to browse.
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ditto for me - and I have a little planning session before the show...of course I am not always real good at sticking to the plan...
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Oct 10 2005, 10:05 PM)
QUOTE(Dan769)
Explain Michael, what do dealers really think of someone with a greysheet and why?
Numismatics is a small world. Everyone knows everyone. If you are a dealer, then the other dealers know who you are. If you are a "new dealer" you get known soon enough.
Dealers are "people people." Collectors are "object people." A dealer will size up a person immediately and know soon whether they are really a local dealer enjoying their first ANA or a collector with a Greysheet looking for the dealer price or whatever.
When two real dealers talk price, yes, the Greysheet or CDN or whatever comes out so that everyone is on the same page. Basically, however, they validate themselves to each other by a host of non-verbal communication signals.
Even I can spot the collector with a Greysheet and I am just a guy who writes about the hobby. They look like they have never been on a bourse floor in their lives. No matter where they look, they never see anyone they know. Dealers are happy to meet them because they buy the stuff for "ten back of bid" that no other dealer bought in the last two days because everyone has all they need right now. Then, along comes the collector with a Greysheet, a fish with a hook in his mouth looking for a dealer with a rod and reel.
Myself, I am just a guy who writes and I buy stuff that I write about and I pay whatever they ask. Sometimes I counteroffer for convenience, $25 instead of $27.50. Mostly, I do not pretend to be something I am not.
If a dealer could not spot the fish, he would have been out of business a long, long time ago.
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Thanks Michael.
Perfectly acceptable, Burks. Take what you need to the show - reference books, magnifier. Some even bring their weighing scales along.
Infact, if any of my customers have forgotten to bring their book along to the show and ask to see mine, then I am more than happy to lend them my copy.
Infact, if any of my customers have forgotten to bring their book along to the show and ask to see mine, then I am more than happy to lend them my copy.
Generally I go to a show seeking one or two specific items for which I know the prices in most grades, and since I consider myself a pretty good grader I don't worry too much. I often test the dealer by asking him what the graysheet ask/bid is on an item -- if he whips it out and gives me the range he's a guy who wants to make a sale and the guy I'm likely to do business with so the negotiations become easy. If he tells me that he doesn't have a graysheet I know he's lying and become much less inclined to conduct business with him.
Have not been to any shows here as they are not that common, just auctions. But to those people bring small catalogues, notes, loupes, digital scales, etc.
I guarantee sellers have books, printouts, and loads of other printed info. So why shouldn't you?
I guarantee sellers have books, printouts, and loads of other printed info. So why shouldn't you?
Hmm.... sounds like I'm the only one with a copy of my website and database on my laptop... Most of what I buy the Krause prices don't mean a thing (and that's the coins).
This is how I see it as a dealer.......if you are going to feel more confident purchasing coins with a book .....that's awesome but books are only as good as the people who write them. I have guys bringing in books to the shop all the time. I don't mind it a bit. I take my greysheets to shows.
<<<< sucker W/ knowledge of my series and I know prices are changing all the time....(Greysheets can't keep up) I don't claim to be someting I'm not. I work for my money and I like to spend it wisely. I collect for the fun of it and I have met alot of people that are out to rip you off, so I think it's better to have all the help you need. Take the book or make you a cheat sheet.
I carry a shoulderbag with copies of my a wantlist, a small notebook, the redbook, and photograde. I do not generally display photograde or the redbook in front of the dealer.
Usually I'll take two walks through the bourse. once to find what's for sale and how much it's going for, then a second trip to buy.
First time through I wander around with my wantlist and see what people have, maybe hand a wantlist to a dealer if they ask for it. I take notes on who has what at what price.
then I go get a cup of coffee and go over my notes. I use the redbook to set an estimate for price. I then come up with a shopping list: coins i can afford to buy at a given grade. Then I refer to photograde and jot down notes next to each list item as to what defines a given grade.
Then I go back and start actually buying. I generally walk up to the table with an idea in my mind and my notes as to pricing.
I use the redbook as a guideline, not a rule. Prices always change. a good price is what I'll pay without feeling sorry later. I sometimes even put down a range of prices in my notes.
I tend to find one or two dealers I really want to buy from, and buy several coins from them. While I do not expect it, every time the dealer has dropped from the listed price. I can also usually suss out by talking to the dealer if i'm their kind of customer.
Usually I'll take two walks through the bourse. once to find what's for sale and how much it's going for, then a second trip to buy.
First time through I wander around with my wantlist and see what people have, maybe hand a wantlist to a dealer if they ask for it. I take notes on who has what at what price.
then I go get a cup of coffee and go over my notes. I use the redbook to set an estimate for price. I then come up with a shopping list: coins i can afford to buy at a given grade. Then I refer to photograde and jot down notes next to each list item as to what defines a given grade.
Then I go back and start actually buying. I generally walk up to the table with an idea in my mind and my notes as to pricing.
I use the redbook as a guideline, not a rule. Prices always change. a good price is what I'll pay without feeling sorry later. I sometimes even put down a range of prices in my notes.
I tend to find one or two dealers I really want to buy from, and buy several coins from them. While I do not expect it, every time the dealer has dropped from the listed price. I can also usually suss out by talking to the dealer if i'm their kind of customer.
When I go to a show I carry:
My notes on half cent varieties
My notes on early date large cent varieties
A copy of either the Robbie Brown or Jack Robinson sale
Buress's quick guide to Middle date varieties
The most recent copy of the early date collection census
Federal Half Dimes 1794 - 1873
Jules Reiver's VIM (Variety Identification Manual) book on half dimes
My notes on the rare varieties of capped bust dimes
Reivers VIM for early quarters
My attribution guide for Capped bust halves
Robert Lamb's book on French notgeld coins
Lamb's book on German notgeld coins
Dalton & Hamer 18th century provincial token coinage
Sale catalog of the Jim Noble Conder collection
Waters on 18th century tokens
An Index of English Conder Token Legends
And of course the Slabbook
I also have ready access to 19th and 20th century Krause catalogs
Cash coins of Korea
Chinese coins by Schojtch (sp)
So I'm carriying 17 books and have access to at least four more. I wouldn't worry about a redbook or a greysheet.
My notes on half cent varieties
My notes on early date large cent varieties
A copy of either the Robbie Brown or Jack Robinson sale
Buress's quick guide to Middle date varieties
The most recent copy of the early date collection census
Federal Half Dimes 1794 - 1873
Jules Reiver's VIM (Variety Identification Manual) book on half dimes
My notes on the rare varieties of capped bust dimes
Reivers VIM for early quarters
My attribution guide for Capped bust halves
Robert Lamb's book on French notgeld coins
Lamb's book on German notgeld coins
Dalton & Hamer 18th century provincial token coinage
Sale catalog of the Jim Noble Conder collection
Waters on 18th century tokens
An Index of English Conder Token Legends
And of course the Slabbook
I also have ready access to 19th and 20th century Krause catalogs
Cash coins of Korea
Chinese coins by Schojtch (sp)
So I'm carriying 17 books and have access to at least four more. I wouldn't worry about a redbook or a greysheet.
What about taking an XXX adult magazine with your Bid prices written upside down in the centerfold? Would that work?
OK, you get a cart and put all the coin books you can on it and you wheel it around the floor.
As if that is not annoying, you pick some hapless dealer and use your books to argue every price and every attribution.
OK, OK, how about this: You take a bunch of books to a coin show and have them AUTOGRAPHED by the authors?
Oh! Wait, you have them autographed by the PUBLISHER: J. T. Stanton, Myron Xenos, Dave Bowers, et al.
You carry an STWC, and STAND on it to get the dealer's attention...
OK, you get a cart and put all the coin books you can on it and you wheel it around the floor.
As if that is not annoying, you pick some hapless dealer and use your books to argue every price and every attribution.
OK, OK, how about this: You take a bunch of books to a coin show and have them AUTOGRAPHED by the authors?
Oh! Wait, you have them autographed by the PUBLISHER: J. T. Stanton, Myron Xenos, Dave Bowers, et al.
You carry an STWC, and STAND on it to get the dealer's attention...
QUOTE(elverno @ Oct 13 2005, 09:57 PM)
Hmm.... sounds like I'm the only one with a copy of my website and database on my laptop... Most of what I buy the Krause prices don't mean a thing (and that's the coins).
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I saw a few people using those palm pilot things at the show. From what I saw I was the only one with a Redbook. A few dealers said they would beat the Redbook price is I was interested in some of the coins so that was a positive.
How can you get greysheets, even old ones? Are they published monthly or what?
Going to a bigger show this week. Don't plan on changing my normal routine mentioned early in this thread. With around 300 wants on the US side and an unknown number in my 1966 World set, I have to take something useful. This time I will double check to make sure my list is updated so I don't end up buying more duplicates.
I need to also remember to take a pen and a note book. I need to remind myself about taking down specifics and table numbers as I walk around and see coins and dealers I want to give another look at. Nothing worse than not remembering where you saw that one coin you thought about buying if you had a few bucks left over at the end of the day.
I need to also remember to take a pen and a note book. I need to remind myself about taking down specifics and table numbers as I walk around and see coins and dealers I want to give another look at. Nothing worse than not remembering where you saw that one coin you thought about buying if you had a few bucks left over at the end of the day.
QUOTE(Burks @ Oct 17 2005, 09:49 PM)
I saw a few people using those palm pilot things at the show.
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I did this once. It was kind of neat but I prefer paper for my needs.
QUOTE(Stujoe @ Oct 17 2005, 09:52 PM)
Nothing worse than not remembering where you saw that one coin you thought about buying if you had a few bucks left over at the end of the day.
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Yeah I brought a small notebook to mark which table I wanted to revisit and take a closer look at. When I first got there I can of glanced over the tables to see which had what I wanted. After seeing all the tables I returned to the ones that need a closer look. Seemed to work pretty well.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Oct 10 2005, 06:05 PM)
Dealers are "people people." Collectors are "object people."
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I assume you mean that dealers care more who the buyer is (do I know you) rather than what they want? Because if you mean "people people" as in "people person", i think we would have to agree to disagree on that.
When someone won't put down the paper to talk to me when I'm there to spend money, I'll pass.
Maybe its because he's never met me, or maybe they've got me pegged as a kid trying to sell circulated bicentennial quarters at 3x face.
.... I really just wanted to look at the large cents hiding in a case under the slabbed morgans.
QUOTE(Fjord)
When someone won't put down the paper to talk to me when I'm there to spend money, I'll pass.
Right, there is that. There are many ways to do business and some people prefer to sit behind a counter. If they did not, they would be cold calling, knocking on doors, using the phone. So, you have to allow for some "latitudes in attitudes."
Also, your complaint that they think that being a "kid" (eight? eighteen?) you are not a serious buyer, that, too, is their problem, not yours. You could make this work for yourself by asking to see the Large Cent under the slabbed Morgans. I mean, you have to assume some responsibilty because every transaction must be bilateral by definition.
That said, I agree that of all the merchants in the world, coin dealers are not universally happy to meet the next customer.
Oh, a bit of humor here: Your tagline "Link to My Typeset Wantlist."
You mean Type Set Want List. or type set want list or perhaps Type set want list. You see, being an old editorial person from the world of print
, I got the "wantlist" part, but I expected it to be nicely typeset, you know, with bolds and underlines, and matching or contrasting fonts. One easy way to do that is with Arial for the headings and Times New Roman for the body copy. 
I will not even get into point sizes or leading. ("led" not "leed" i.e., element Pb, a blank line inserted between lines of type.) "Typeset" -- pretty funny.
A bit more humorist The Littleton Coin Company
The Littleton Coin Company By Michael E. Marotta. There are few bargains better
than the coins sold by Littleton Coin Company of Littleton, New Hampshire. ...
http://www.littletoncoin.com/html/marotta.htm
I like this.
I love it when dealers put down what they are doing just to chat. Almost all of them did so at the show. I did have a nice long conversation with one (who I bought both my coins from) about the rising prices of U.S. coins. He was doing some grading and saw me checking out his Barber halves. Right away he came over and started to chat. Very nice person, probably why I purchased from him instead of the other guy who just looked at me and went back to his paper.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Oct 18 2005, 01:17 PM)
("led" not "leed" i.e., element Pb...
Pb; I'm quite sure that's lead. Unless Americans spell it differently?
QUOTE(Ętheling @ Oct 18 2005, 01:10 PM)
Pb; I'm quite sure that's lead. Unless Americans spell it differently?
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That is correct. Lead = Pb
I carry this little book I got from my local dealer, it has every US coin listed, you just fill in the amount under the appropriate grade you are looking for. I can see what I got and what I need and what I am willing 2 pay, in my little book. lol
< You could make this work for yourself by asking to see the Large Cent under the slabbed Morgans. >
Difficult to do if they won't acknowledge your existance.
Difficult to do if they won't acknowledge your existance.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Oct 18 2005, 04:17 AM)
Right, there is that. There are many ways to do business and some people prefer to sit behind a counter. If they did not, they would be cold calling, knocking on doors, using the phone. So, you have to allow for some "latitudes in attitudes."
Also, your complaint that they think that being a "kid" (eight? eighteen?) you are not a serious buyer, that, too, is their problem, not yours. You could make this work for yourself by asking to see the Large Cent under the slabbed Morgans. I mean, you have to assume some responsibilty because every transaction must be bilateral by definition.
Also, your complaint that they think that being a "kid" (eight? eighteen?) you are not a serious buyer, that, too, is their problem, not yours. You could make this work for yourself by asking to see the Large Cent under the slabbed Morgans. I mean, you have to assume some responsibilty because every transaction must be bilateral by definition.
Why do you presume that I'm just standing there? I wait, I talk to the dealer, try to get his or her attention. I do everything short of standing on the table and discharging an air horn. Still, no assistance. It's no big deal. Someone else gets my money.
As to whether it's my age or dress, it's not a complaint, just speculation as to why I get ignored.
.sig file has been corrected, thank you for the pointer.
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