Been discussing this over at CU forums.

Looking at the size of the 1901-present Krause it's getting quite large. Even by Krause's standards.

In a few years time we'll probably see the 20th century split off from the 21st, so the 1901-2000 Krause will be given it's own book, whilst the 2001-present will move into it's own.

Looking at the explosion of NCLT, Commems and Bullion 'coinage' over the last few decades the 2001-2100 book will be probably too big for one volume.

So we were discussing how would be the best method of breaking the book down into two more managable volumes?


Several suggestions presented themselves, all of which have problems. Splitting by date 2001-2050, 2051-2100. Separating circulation coinage from commems and NCLT. Separating alphabetically?


Which method would you prefer, feel free to add other methods should you think of a better one.

I think it would be more likely that they split the book by date , they already publish a book with circulation issues only (Collecting world coins). I would be more frustrated if I had to buy two books divided alphabetically, rather than a 1901-1950 and a 1951-date book...

Jose

I was against the Alphabetical divisions for just that reason.

Yes, I agree. The way these NCLT coins are being produced -not to mention state quarters, province quarters and other circulating commems- the next century will be waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too big to fit into one volume. I do collect both, so I would not want them dropped completely. However, some reorganizing does seem inevitable.

Of all those options, I personally think that seperating at a date (2001-2050, 2051-2100) is the worst. I prefer to have coin series as intact as possible. I already find it annoying when looking at a coin series in the 19th century volume and then have to switch to the 20th. I would much prefer an alphabetical division, or then a circulating/NCLT division.

Or then instead Krause could just issue a seperate volume for Isle of Man, Marshall Islands, Turks & Caicos, and all those other island states that issue practically nothing but NCLT!

As a purist collector. I favoured the splitting the circulation issues from the NCLT issues.

True there can be grey areas in this approach but i think generally it could achieve a better solution to the problem.

Some people actively collect just commems and they'd find everything they needed in the NCLT book. Commems that circulatate on a daily basis could be included in both the NCLT and the circulation issue books.

The main problem i find is alot of countries issue special silver and gold versions of their currency, these would unanimously in my opinion go into the NCLT book. Along with bullion and all other manner of psuedo-coins.

Anything issued to circulate as the prime motive (be it commem or regular) goes into normal issue (regular proofs can be included within this as a matter of completion although generally they really should go into the NCLT because that's what proofs are). This i think would be a better alternative. Not perfect i must admit.

But as a purist it's the way i'd do it. But i'm biased.

The problem with splitting alphabetically is if you collect coins from say France and Spain but nowhere else, well that's two books for you.

Whilst i think on another comment i threw out, if the book is puchased digitally then it wouldn't be a problem at all!

If this were the case, I do not think it would prove to be a problem. I am sure a single book on each Spain and France could be found.

Unless you can't speak Spanish or French then Krause is your main helper. This doesn't exactly apply to me because i only collect 18th century French coinage and i can find a book in English on them thanks to a post on another forum.

OK, then just break in two books, the first one would be the already published "Collecting world coins" the other would be "Collecting world governments money making schemes"...

Or it could be a volume 1901-1970, then a book for each decade (1971-80, 1981-90,....)


Jose

I like! (I even like the titles)






Sisu's gonna like that!


Maybe it's best to leave it in one book but make it a really, really big one, hardbacked with clasps?*


*Free wheelbarrow with every purchase

With certain countries this is probably true (India and China come straight to mind), but I would say that with the majority of the modern issues in Krause, there is not much written text anyhow. Most of the text is "5 pesetas Composition:Aluminum-Bronze" and other such blurbs. If I collect a specific country's coinage, I would much prefer a country specific book even if I did not know the language. Mintage numbers and such are fairly self-explanatory and thus need no translation. I think that the likelyhood of more detailed photos and variety listings, etc would far outweigh the fact that I could not read the text.

True.

If that actually happened, I seriously think that I would pull out the pages out of each volume and staple them together in packets of individual countries.


Hmmmm.....maybe I need to start looking for some used copies of older volumes of krause: 17th, 18th, 19th, 20th and then pull out the scissors and stapler.

That is actually a good idea!

If there's any 17th/18th century French you don't need you know where i am. (Or 18th century Austria if it comes to that)

Divided by initial letters catalogues already exists... I own one 20 century Weltmunzkatalog Gunther Schon 1980 edition divided in two volumes: countries by A to I and countries by J to Z. Isn't bad idea: it is very easy to work with it! You don't need to keep in hands a ton of slim paper...

OK, what we need is personalized Krause catalogs!!!

Example:
We log in to their website, then we select what we need let's say one country and one century is a certain price, so one could want:
England - XX, XIX, XVIII and XVII century (35 cents each)
France - XX, XIX, XVIII century (35 cents each)
Italy - XX century (35 cents)
China - XX century (2 US$)
Germany - XVIII century (8 US$)

Total: 12.8 US$ + 5 US$ for the "dossier" to put the sheets on (if you decide to buy more countries, you already have a place to put them) + s/h.

You just need to buy what you want...

Jose

Actually that's a rather good idea Jose, more people might be willing to buy more. The cost of new Krauses puts alot of people off.

ugh.

turn it into an annual subscription and put it on the web. have a base subscription cost with addons for different features (a wider date range, better quality photos, ...)

or distribute it on dvd.

either way you can print out the parts that matter to you most, and for most people this is a (relative) handful of pages.

but please stop with the dead trees already.

I'm in favor of large reference works going digital. As mentioned the content can be customized along with the pricing. So in the Krause example, everyone could get the basic guidebook with the abbreviations, definitions and such and then you could choose your countries/areas. For example, someone could choose all Africa 1700-present and pay one fee, while someone else may choose only France 1600-1840.

If you didn't know, there are people who have converted their whole Krause collection into digital format, i.e. their whole 1600-2000+ book. Appearently it's so large that it has to fitted in a dvd, not just the plain old CD. That's how big the whole series is.

They could always split the books up by continent.

I hadn't thought of that! Continent hey... that's quite a good approach.

I've also taught about it, but some countries had (have) colonial empires or possessions and a split by continent would made some people upset! (Well, at least me...)

Jose

Never thought about the colonies. I've always ignored all colonial coinage, all those British colonies and when i see a coin from British India i don't equate it as being British, it's foreign to me. As are coins from Jersey.

In my opinion, the publishers should first (in a few years) split the "1901-Present" volume into two, "1901-2000" and "2001-Present". And anything beyond that ... is far away ;-)

What I mean is, it would make sense to issue separate volumes for the first and the second half of the current century. That would IMO be better than a division by continent for example. But we do not know how many coins will actually be issued in 30, 60 or 90 years. Also, what about technical development? Provided that the Planet Earth and the publishing house are still intact then such catalogs may have been replaced by tiny portable devices or by something ultra-cool that I cannot imagine yet ...

Christian

It is totally possible, if you want them to be in your PDA for example. If you get a 1gb SD card, you can shove at least 1 krause book inside easily (shock horror), provided that the battery doesn't run out that quick

But it is doable, it is only a matter of time before the price factor drops down significantly.

As good as digital books are and as accessible as they are i can't help but feel i'd miss the old printed book format. It's just not the same to me.

I like books, i collect them. I'm not a big fan of modern gizmos and gadgets... too 'new', i don't like new, it's uncomfortable.

I beg your pardon there, of course I do love printed books. But if you are going to a coin fair, would you drag your whole collection of Krause there just to determine if the price is right? No. I have seen people pulling out "photocopies" of the catalogue which I had a pretty decent laugh.

I just think it's really a matter of time, which could be easily from a matter of 5-10 years or so. I mean, think about this, we used to get infomation from those ultra large and heavy encylopedias, the days when there was no such thing called internet. Unless you happened to be one of those users who is a freak and signed up for one when it appeared out during the early 90s. Nevertheless, that is not how we look for infomation nowadays - we just use google for almost anything! Of course, it is still not good enough, but most certainly have shown a large change. And I am quite sure this is not the only thing that has gone digital, like digital cameras opposed to normal film camera.

+ I don't really quite like Krause's small illustrations If I could have images in full color and in much larger details, why not?

I've never had a digital camera, i do have a film camera, and i do have a 1930s box camera that'd i'd love to get some film for and have a go with.


I also have encyclopædias (i will spell it that way because its got the nifty æ and i love my æ's).

Google is okay, but you must note many of the site google takes you too are not academic and the information provided maybe less accurate than you'd find in a book. Of course books aren't infallible there's alot of rubbish out there but it costs more the get writing published than it does to stick it on the internet, so more of the junk gets filtered out through the old method.

I don't take price guides to coin fairs with me, at coinfairs i buy on eye appeal. If i've got the money for it and i like it, i buy it. If i overpay well tough i should have read up on it before i went, serves me right.


Anyway i always thought the idea of film processing in darkrooms with tons of chemicals was far more exciting than doing it on a computer. But perhaps that's the chemist in me... i love messing about with bottles of dangerous liquids and silver salts.

I hear it said computers in offices have doubled the workload and the stress load of employees. They crash, they break down, files get lost. Everything has to be saved twice, taking twice as long. And workers get frustrated when the computer won't play ball, i know i do.

A quill and paper seems a much more sensible and straight forward option all round. As long as you keep your inkwell topped up with ink and a touch of salt you'll be fine.

Most certainly, the internet is just way too much junk at the moment.

Nevertheless, whether you like it or not, computers do exist in almost any field, including what we are discussing requires computers too Would this be considered stressful? Of course, it would be a lot nicer if we all could have a cup of tea and biscuits and have a chit-chat, but that is impossible as we are all too far apart

Nevertheless, yes, computers used to crash too often - go and blame the hardware manufactures, I know those problems too often. I hadn't had a crash ever since I had this laptop. (geez, you know, everything needs some sort of maintence you know, maybe except a quilt )

Well back to the point of Krause, I don't know what to say, but I am not too confortable of how this is proceeding. I mean, if let's say I had a 2000 Krause edition book, I would be more than happy just to buy the later 2001-2005 series, but not the whole volume again. I mean, think again, how much papers is there "wasted" and as well as the costs?

Sure enough, if this is the first time you are going to buy a Krause, it is going to be worthwhile, but not something you want to buy a new catalogue every single year when most of the "older" data there is almost the same with some more new infomation.

Your points are valid though. The one good thing about the demise of the printed book is the trees it saves. I just happen to like trees even more than books. Explains my previous username well too, as that meant 'one who dwells in the woods'.

Which isn't too far from the truth because we do have a wood at the top of our garden, so we're not far away.

I must say partaking of elevenses with Earl Grey tea in china cups and a plateful of Bourbon biscuits with you charming fellows does sound like a much nicer way of doing business than this internet malarky. I don't express myself well over the internet as i do in person.

Still i digress, the Krause 'issue' will become one in a few years time, i'll let them worry about that. I'm going to go and dig out the tea leaves. And something typically un-British, but rather more French... garlic!

In my opinion the best option would be to make a 1901-2000 book and then a 2001-present book.

I don't see an advantage in splitting up in e.g. continents as many collectors would require more than one copy and be off more expensive in the end.

I don't use Krause as a price guide, but for the numismatic informaion in it, although specialized books give much more info.




it would require much better paper (=more $$$) and 4 colour printing (= more $$$)

If Krause would print the 1901-present catalog in the same quality as the 2006 red book, I'm afraid it would cost way over US$100. Then far less people would buy it, so the price would increase again.

Going digital is something I'd really like, although it has it's drawbacks. You'd require a stack of CD's or at least one DVD. Then there's the copy protection: the publisher wants that everybody who uses the catalog, pays for the catalog, so wants to make sure no illegal copies can be made. The user however, wants it to be easy to use, so no annoying password screens or other techniques.


But then again: nothing compares to a real book to browse through.

Garlic... in your tea?????

Most certainly agree. *cough* I'm in a process of compiling ultra high resolution of my coin collection, which you can see some of them in the Russian coin forum. But yea, they are starting to hit towards the content of 1 cd, so that is why I can't just post them up too frequently...

I must admit that Krause's 1600-2000+ catalogue could fit in a dvd. (what horror). The rest is a piece of cake. If you have too much cds, you can always make it to fit into a dvd, or if you have too many dvds, well the next generation blu-ray or hd-dvd will help you out one day, but that's going to be another 5 years later or so...

I am updating my modern Krause for the first time in 10 years. I bought my first one in 1996 and decided that I would wait an even decade before getting a new one. And I may have even waited longer had not the euro arrived.

Now, Sisu, 10 years is VERY reasonable, that I can understand easily.

Not together, i know us Brits are weird but even we draw the line somewhere.

It was one or the other... i came back with two cloves of garlic an half a dozen mini-tomatoes. I'll go for tea later. (All this healthy food you know).

That is a good idea also, and something that could probably be done by 2010.

My fear is that looking at the Finnish (and some other euro countries) euro series in a 1901-2000 edition, there will be the 1999 and 2000 euro coins and then the 2001+ edition will start at 2001. I just find that very annoying.

Garlic in tea? Why, I am not suprised.

I have seen people putting jams inside teas, so you will never know what people do to their things...

Lemon maybe, garlic no.

I agree, and it would be true for the Dutch euro coins too.

However, my 1901-present edition does contain pre 1901 coins.

E.g. USA:

Indian Head Cent starts at 1900
Liberty Nickel starts at 1900
Barber Dime starts at 1900
Barber Quarter starts at 1892
Barber Half dollar starts at 1892
Morgan Dollar starts at 1900

Right, that would affect the coins from five member states. Maybe the 1999/2000 mintages of these countries could be added to the 2001+ catalog. This way, additional images would not be necessary ... (Guess that many euro collectors have other catalogs anyway, and thus would not care much - but that would probably not apply to collectors elsewhere.)

Christian

Now, THAT is an awesome idea

I have the 2006 Standard Catalog(33rd edition) and personally I don't mind the size but I do see the problem a few years hence. As most have said, dividing it into 1901-2000 and 2001-present would be the way to go.

Slightly OT, but since I collect Spanish Crowns and Minors I have found the "Standard catalog of world coins : Spain, Portugal and the New World" a big convenience as I don't have to look at my other big catalogs(17th, 18th and 19th century Standard Catalogs) anymore. My only beef with it is that it left out Spain's other former colonies, most notably(for me, that is) my country, the Philippines. In fairness to them it says in the foreword that the catalog was for the Americas( i.e. the new world) I just think it would have been much more complete if they included " and other Colonies" to the title and content Otherwise its a pretty good compilation, easier to carry around the house too.

This options makes the most sense to me. Split the real coins from the cash cows

Hehe, but doesn't KP actually do something like that? For the 1901-present coins there is the SCWC (which contains "regular" and commemorative coins) and the "Collecting World Coins" catalog (which focuses on the circulation coins). I have not seen that second catalog and thus cannot tell how well the dividing line is drawn. But it could be an interesting option for those who do not collect commems ...

Christian

I didn't know they had the other catalog. Though I wonder what they do with circulating commems I imagine they'll go by time period once the book gets big enough

People mentioned digital releases as well in this thread which would be nice. But until you can copy protect a DVD I don't see publishers rushing out to make piracy easier. Or can they manage that pretty well with subscription keys and the like?

Looks like some divison is being worked out. While the 2006 issue read "1901-present", the 2007 issue reads "1901-2000". Not sure if an actual split has been made yet in this issue, but it does seem like something is in the works.

Amazon

It'll be good in that we won't need to keep buying new volumes for the 20th century and giving away the older versions.

Of course that won't help with the 21st century coins