On a side note I picked up a 1oz silver Kookabarru coin for $12
Full Version: Any ANA members here?
Today at the state fair I picked up a paper from ANA about joining them. Is it worth the money to join? What kind of benefits can I see that they may not advertise?
On a side note I picked up a 1oz silver Kookabarru coin for $12
On a side note I picked up a 1oz silver Kookabarru coin for $12
Not bad for 12USD What year is it? There was some massive sale here some time ago and some dealers were selling their 2oz silver kookabarra coins for 30USD more or less.
What year is it? There was some massive sale here some time ago and some dealers were selling their 2oz silver kookabarra coins for 30USD more or less.
Most coin collectors do not join the ANA because you do get much for the $35 per year. You get a magazine; that is about it. The magazine is not that interesting.
You are better off keeping your money and buying whatever coins you feel like, paying whatever price you think is fair. You can find out all about coins from the internet, by asking people here and elsewhere when you want to know something.
The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset. We trade among ourselves at prices not available to the general public. We discover the die varieties and all that stuff and after we buy all the coins we can find from each other, then someone writes a book. That creates collector demand and we sell to them at the next level of prices. We call it "cherrypicking."
In fact, ANA members write just about every book on coin collecting and generally speaking only ANA members buy them. It is sort of like a co-operative. Some books like "cherrypicking" books and the Red Book that announces prices are sold to many collectors who are not ANA members. Those collectors are the retail market for ANA members and dealers.
Say I am a dealer and I find that I have 1500 Seated Quarters in the back of the safe. Well, I have to get rid of them. So, when the new Red Book is being prepared, I help the editor, former ANA president Ken Bressett, set the price of Seated Quarters. It cannot be too high, but must not be too low and it has to be high enough in the Red Book so that I can say, "The Red Book is too high... Tell you what I am going to do for you..."
ANA members edit and write all of the hobby periodicals: Coins, CoinAge, Coin World, Numismatic News, Coin Prices, etc., etc. These are sold mostly to non-ANA members who figure that reading a magazine from a newsstand tells them all they need to know -- and it does. They do not need to know more than that. That next level of knowledge is only for ANA members. Numismatist magazine is just for us.
ANA members serve on the Citizens Coin Advisory Committee and help Congress decide what coins to authorize. Congress does not always listen to us, of course. That is Congress. This is why certain coins are made with certain designs. The other people who collect what they like because it feels good buy whatever is left over. Sometimes, there is not much left over and prices on these commemoratives rise. That is what we are looking for, of course: special profits from public programs for ANA members and ANA dealers. Certainly, non-members get lucky and "win" the opportunity to buy a commemorative before they all run out. If that did not happen, the market would dry up. Think of it like a lotto: the promise of winning is why people play.
ANA members go to national conventions where 300 dealers from around the world compete against each other for the attention of buyers. Most collectors bid against each other on eBay and claim that they "won" a coin by "sniping" it to the highest possible price. Of course, having blown their money that way, most collectors "cannot afford" to go to a national convention.
At ANA conventions, you meet not only the US Mint, but 10 to 30 other Mints from the Ukraine, the United Kingdom, Singapore, Perth, Canada, Austria, etc. ANA members are a huge buying block for these Mints and we help them define their marketing strategies by meeting with them privately at conventions.
While it is true ANA members control the hobby, you probably will not get much out of being an ANA member.
Look at it this way. Over 10 million people in American claim to "collect coins." That includes people who stash State Quarters and Kennedy Halves and whatever else they like or seems interesting. Only 1 to 2 million people in America buy Proof Sets and Mint Sets. Only 100,000 people subscribe to Coin World. Only 30,000 collectors belong to the ANA.
Now, if the ANA were such a big deal, all those 100,000 Coin World readers would be members. Would not most of those 2 million Proof Set buyers be members? Maybe only half of those 10 million part time collectors would join. None of them does because obviously the ANA is not worth $35 per year to the average collector.
You are better off keeping your money and buying whatever coins you feel like, paying whatever price you think is fair. You can find out all about coins from the internet, by asking people here and elsewhere when you want to know something.
The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset. We trade among ourselves at prices not available to the general public. We discover the die varieties and all that stuff and after we buy all the coins we can find from each other, then someone writes a book. That creates collector demand and we sell to them at the next level of prices. We call it "cherrypicking."
In fact, ANA members write just about every book on coin collecting and generally speaking only ANA members buy them. It is sort of like a co-operative. Some books like "cherrypicking" books and the Red Book that announces prices are sold to many collectors who are not ANA members. Those collectors are the retail market for ANA members and dealers.
Say I am a dealer and I find that I have 1500 Seated Quarters in the back of the safe. Well, I have to get rid of them. So, when the new Red Book is being prepared, I help the editor, former ANA president Ken Bressett, set the price of Seated Quarters. It cannot be too high, but must not be too low and it has to be high enough in the Red Book so that I can say, "The Red Book is too high... Tell you what I am going to do for you..."
ANA members edit and write all of the hobby periodicals: Coins, CoinAge, Coin World, Numismatic News, Coin Prices, etc., etc. These are sold mostly to non-ANA members who figure that reading a magazine from a newsstand tells them all they need to know -- and it does. They do not need to know more than that. That next level of knowledge is only for ANA members. Numismatist magazine is just for us.
ANA members serve on the Citizens Coin Advisory Committee and help Congress decide what coins to authorize. Congress does not always listen to us, of course. That is Congress. This is why certain coins are made with certain designs. The other people who collect what they like because it feels good buy whatever is left over. Sometimes, there is not much left over and prices on these commemoratives rise. That is what we are looking for, of course: special profits from public programs for ANA members and ANA dealers. Certainly, non-members get lucky and "win" the opportunity to buy a commemorative before they all run out. If that did not happen, the market would dry up. Think of it like a lotto: the promise of winning is why people play.
ANA members go to national conventions where 300 dealers from around the world compete against each other for the attention of buyers. Most collectors bid against each other on eBay and claim that they "won" a coin by "sniping" it to the highest possible price. Of course, having blown their money that way, most collectors "cannot afford" to go to a national convention.
At ANA conventions, you meet not only the US Mint, but 10 to 30 other Mints from the Ukraine, the United Kingdom, Singapore, Perth, Canada, Austria, etc. ANA members are a huge buying block for these Mints and we help them define their marketing strategies by meeting with them privately at conventions.
While it is true ANA members control the hobby, you probably will not get much out of being an ANA member.
Look at it this way. Over 10 million people in American claim to "collect coins." That includes people who stash State Quarters and Kennedy Halves and whatever else they like or seems interesting. Only 1 to 2 million people in America buy Proof Sets and Mint Sets. Only 100,000 people subscribe to Coin World. Only 30,000 collectors belong to the ANA.
Now, if the ANA were such a big deal, all those 100,000 Coin World readers would be members. Would not most of those 2 million Proof Set buyers be members? Maybe only half of those 10 million part time collectors would join. None of them does because obviously the ANA is not worth $35 per year to the average collector.
Burks, I joined the ANA for one year and enjoyed the magazine they offered. I also got a loupe, laynard, and a book on collecting the ideal 20th century type set for joining, which was nice. Mike is right though, you can learn so much more right here on the internet though this and other websites. And no, I did not renew my membership with the ANA. They do have a website alsoAMA website
Any organisation is only as good as the members whom join and participate in it. If you have something to offer by all means join, we all benefit.
I was a member for a year, though I paid for two. When I moved from Washington to Indiana, they couldn't get things straight, and when I called and told them that I paid my dues at the ANA in Portland, they said they had no record of it, so I would have to join all over again. And the woman I talked to sounded like she was a hundred, so I figure I really don't need to bother. The magazine was nice, but not worth $35. Also, it seems like I got out before the latest directory fiasco, where they wanted to have a 3rd party publisher put out a book listing all the members' names and addresses. Maybe I am cynical, but all a thief needs is a catalog of people who collect money to make their lives of crime easier. I guess they later decided to cancel that idea, still I am very glad that the people at the ANA no longer even know my correct address. Since then, I have joined my local coin club, and it costs only $7 a year and is a whole lot more fun! We have monthly meetings except in summer, auctions and door prizes at the meetings, and an annual coin show put on by the members. Plus we get to talk to each other an look at coins! Now that's a real bargain!
Bottom line, the ANA is fine for some people, but if you have a local coin club, I would join that way before the ANA!
Bottom line, the ANA is fine for some people, but if you have a local coin club, I would join that way before the ANA!
I just joined the ANA for a number of reasons, the least of which is for the magazine.
There is one phenomenal benefit that isn't always talked about. They have one of the most extensive numismatic libraries in the country (okay, probably the world) outside the Library of Congress. How would this benefit you, you say? You say you don't live anywhere near Colorado Springs? No problem, for the price of shipping, they'll ship you any book in their lobby for you to peruse at your own convenience for 6 weeks! Any book that you can normally check out! That's a lot of books that normally could cost you big bucks to obtain or otherwise just need to look through and not keep.
The price of admission will be paid for when I borrow the Ultimate Guide to Three Cent Nickels. It's about a $200 book and I don't want to own it, but I do want to have the chance to read through it. There are many other books that I've heard of and would be curious to see, but realize that it's unlikely I would want to any many, if any of them.
Also, I plan on submitting some coins to NGC. Normally there's a cost to join the NGC Collector Society, however you can submit directly to NGC if you're an ANA member.
And I plan on going to their summer seminar session in 2006. You have to pay a much higher fee if you're not a member.
Many, if not most, of the top end numismatists belong to the ANA. Granted, most novices won't join just to coin another coin club. I'm looking forward to rubbing elbows with some of the best in the business next summer!
My advice....JOIN!
Bruce
There is one phenomenal benefit that isn't always talked about. They have one of the most extensive numismatic libraries in the country (okay, probably the world) outside the Library of Congress. How would this benefit you, you say? You say you don't live anywhere near Colorado Springs? No problem, for the price of shipping, they'll ship you any book in their lobby for you to peruse at your own convenience for 6 weeks! Any book that you can normally check out! That's a lot of books that normally could cost you big bucks to obtain or otherwise just need to look through and not keep.
The price of admission will be paid for when I borrow the Ultimate Guide to Three Cent Nickels. It's about a $200 book and I don't want to own it, but I do want to have the chance to read through it. There are many other books that I've heard of and would be curious to see, but realize that it's unlikely I would want to any many, if any of them.
Also, I plan on submitting some coins to NGC. Normally there's a cost to join the NGC Collector Society, however you can submit directly to NGC if you're an ANA member.
And I plan on going to their summer seminar session in 2006. You have to pay a much higher fee if you're not a member.
Many, if not most, of the top end numismatists belong to the ANA. Granted, most novices won't join just to coin another coin club. I'm looking forward to rubbing elbows with some of the best in the business next summer!
My advice....JOIN!
Bruce
Being an ANA member has many benefits but like most things they don't all apply to all members. The biggies on the benefit list are:
1) The Library, 2) The Numismatist, 3) Coin Collection Insurance, 4) Participating in the organization that directly effects the flow of the hobby politically and business-wise.
I have used the Library quite a bit. There are books as mentioned above, but there are also "slide shows", videos, and other types of materials that can be made available. To me, this is one of the major benefits.
I enjoy the Numismatist and figure that at newsstand prices it would sell for $3-5 per issue with subscription rates of $29.95 per year. So the $35 for membership is a minor hit over this cost. The Library is worth many times the $35 to those who use it.
To top it all off there are the conventions/shows twice a year and the knowledge that you are helping to keep the hobby alive and moving in the correct direction. The ANA's Y/N programs are wonderful.
1) The Library, 2) The Numismatist, 3) Coin Collection Insurance, 4) Participating in the organization that directly effects the flow of the hobby politically and business-wise.
I have used the Library quite a bit. There are books as mentioned above, but there are also "slide shows", videos, and other types of materials that can be made available. To me, this is one of the major benefits.
I enjoy the Numismatist and figure that at newsstand prices it would sell for $3-5 per issue with subscription rates of $29.95 per year. So the $35 for membership is a minor hit over this cost. The Library is worth many times the $35 to those who use it.
To top it all off there are the conventions/shows twice a year and the knowledge that you are helping to keep the hobby alive and moving in the correct direction. The ANA's Y/N programs are wonderful.
QUOTE(Prethen)
There is one phenomenal benefit that isn't always talked about. They have one of the most extensive numismatic libraries in the country...
Bruce, I forgot about the Library! I will add a few lines:
"You get a magazine; that is about it. The magazine is not that interesting. You can borrow old books from their library. Members pay for shipping and insurance both ways and read books about 3-cent nickels and Large Cents and Morgan Dollars. These books have a lot of boring details in them."
How's that?
QUOTE(Mediccoin)
... Mike is right though, you can learn so much more right here on the internet though this and other websites.
That sound of rushing air was the main idea of my post sailing over your head.
I see that I was being too clever.
Here it is in plain English:
If you are not in the ANA, you are not among the elite of the hobby. You are in one of the bottom tiers. Maybe you are among the 100,000 who read Coin World. Maybe you are among some other subset -- say members of local clubs, for instance -- or maybe you are in with the 10 million other people who put interesting coins in jars.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Aug 9 2005, 06:42 PM)
QUOTE(Mediccoin)
... Mike is right though, you can learn so much more right here on the internet though this and other websites.
That sound of rushing air was the main idea of my post sailing over your head.
I see that I was being too clever.
Here it is in plain English:
If you are not in the ANA, you are not among the elite of the hobby. You are in one of the bottom tiers. Maybe you are among the 100,000 who read Coin World. Maybe you are among some other subset -- say members of local clubs, for instance -- or maybe you are in with the 10 million other people who put interesting coins in jars.
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I guess I am in the elite of the hobby.
QUOTE(jtryka)
I was a member for a year, though I paid for two. When I moved from Washington to Indiana, they couldn't get things straight, and when I called and told them that I paid my dues at the ANA in Portland, they said they had no record of it, so I would have to join all over again. And the woman I talked to sounded like she was a hundred, so I figure I really don't need to bother. The magazine was nice, but not worth $35.
Did you have a receipt? Even if you handed over $70 in cash, you would have something to show for it. Did you have a canceled check, or a credit card statement?
Look, let us be brutally honest. Coin collectors are the kind of people who generally do not get along well with other people. We are introverts -- and dysfunctional introverts at that. So, when you ran into a problem, instead of dealing with it, you fell into your oppositional defiance behavior and let something bad happen to yourself. Hey, how do you think I know?
If you did not get the answer you needed on the phone, you could have written a letter explaining all the details -- Portland, time, date, color of hair of the clerk, whatever -- and letting someone look into it. "They" said that "they" had "no record" of it? Nonsense! If they took money, they have a record. They just needed some time to find it -- but you did not want to give it to them.
Like I said, we all have these quirks, or we would not be collectors, we would be gameshow hosts.
You owe it to yourself to catch up with the ANA. PM me with your real name and current address. Let me see what I can do -- when it comes to numismatics, I am a gameshow host.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Aug 9 2005, 07:36 PM)
[
Look, let us be brutally honest. Coin collectors are the kind of people who generally do not get along well with other people. We are introverts -- and dysfunctional introverts at that. So, when you ran into a problem, instead of dealing with it, you fell into your oppositional defiance behavior and let something bad happen to yourself. Hey, how do you think I know?
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Look, let us be brutally honest. Coin collectors are the kind of people who generally do not get along well with other people. We are introverts -- and dysfunctional introverts at that. So, when you ran into a problem, instead of dealing with it, you fell into your oppositional defiance behavior and let something bad happen to yourself. Hey, how do you think I know?
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How can you get along with other people when they are all out to steal your coins from you?
QUOTE(Prethen)
... And I plan on going to their summer seminar session in 2006. You have to pay a much higher fee if you're not a member.
The U.S. Secret Service sends agents to the ANA Summer Seminars.
It goes without saying that the instructors are the best in their fields. What is interesting is to see an instructor from one class sitting as a student in a another class. Learning is for life.
My thought:
Depending on what type of collector you are, any organization may or may not be for you.
Me personaly, I would not join any club I had to pay anything more than a couple bucks to pay for a small newsletter or something. Coin prices? I ignore them. The redbook, used for refrence only, rarely do I look at a price guide at all
If I want a coin, I buy it. And I buy it at a price that I believe it is worth. If I want a coin and I think it would be better to have that coin then the $20 in my pocket, I would pay $20 for it even if redbook (or grey sheet or whatever) says its only worh 50 cents. Ripped off? no, Happy becasue I got a coin at the price I wanted to pay (plus I prob made that dealers day also).
All this talk abotu being an Elite or better then others becausee you are in a club.... meh. You can be just as educated and just as good (or better) a collector not being in any organizations then people who are. No tiers... No elite.. no one is speacial. We are coin collectors, period!
Conclution: Join the club if you beelive ethe beifits will benifit you, dont do it for the status.
All IMHO of coarse
-Bobby
Depending on what type of collector you are, any organization may or may not be for you.
Me personaly, I would not join any club I had to pay anything more than a couple bucks to pay for a small newsletter or something. Coin prices? I ignore them. The redbook, used for refrence only, rarely do I look at a price guide at all
If I want a coin, I buy it. And I buy it at a price that I believe it is worth. If I want a coin and I think it would be better to have that coin then the $20 in my pocket, I would pay $20 for it even if redbook (or grey sheet or whatever) says its only worh 50 cents. Ripped off? no, Happy becasue I got a coin at the price I wanted to pay (plus I prob made that dealers day also).
All this talk abotu being an Elite or better then others becausee you are in a club.... meh. You can be just as educated and just as good (or better) a collector not being in any organizations then people who are. No tiers... No elite.. no one is speacial. We are coin collectors, period!
Conclution: Join the club if you beelive ethe beifits will benifit you, dont do it for the status.
All IMHO of coarse
-Bobby
Yes I am a member. It is worth the money if you use the services and information offered. If you don't then it's not worth it.
I paid with cash at the Portland ANA, even though my membership wasn't up for renewal until May (if I recall correctly, I initially joined at the PNNA show in 2003). I paid cash for my renewal and I received a receipt which I lost when I moved 2,456 miles to my new home. I also bought a Chicago ANA medal from them, but that I paid for with a credit card and found an old statement with the charges, but fortunately I carried the medal with me when I left.
And yes, the octagenerian I spoke with on the phone said they had no record of receiving my dues for 2004-2005, so either she didn't look, or she lied. I personally have no insights into the accounting or control environment within the ANA, but I wasn't going to argue with an elderly lady on the phone. I thought about writing a letter, but I really don't have time, plus I was under the impression that the Association was there to serve their membership, not make their members go through all sorts of hassles just to be a member. I'll be happy to send you my name and address, and if you want to put your game show host skills to the test, have at it.
Finally, I could do without your amateur psychoanalysis, but since we are on the subject, you might want to look into the insecurities presented in this thread by folks who seem to believe that you must join the ANA to be an "elite" collector. This type of good ol' down home elitist crap is just what our hobby needs, after all, you can never have too many snobs looking down their noses at you while you are just trying to enjoy a hobby in your spare time. For you "elite" collectors that are members of the ANA, it certainly appears your $35 was well spent, giving you the added self-esteem needed to think yourselves better than your fellow collectors. As for me, I'll let my coins testify as to my experience and knowledge of numismatics. And one last thing, I have had the pleasure of meeting in person a number of great collectors, the types of collectors that end up with pedigrees on their TPG holders, and the one thing these truly great numismatists had in common, was that they never proclaimed themselves elite. Instead, they were pleased to talk about virtually any aspect of the hobby with collectors who had far less experience and disposable income than they had.
And yes, the octagenerian I spoke with on the phone said they had no record of receiving my dues for 2004-2005, so either she didn't look, or she lied. I personally have no insights into the accounting or control environment within the ANA, but I wasn't going to argue with an elderly lady on the phone. I thought about writing a letter, but I really don't have time, plus I was under the impression that the Association was there to serve their membership, not make their members go through all sorts of hassles just to be a member. I'll be happy to send you my name and address, and if you want to put your game show host skills to the test, have at it.
Finally, I could do without your amateur psychoanalysis, but since we are on the subject, you might want to look into the insecurities presented in this thread by folks who seem to believe that you must join the ANA to be an "elite" collector. This type of good ol' down home elitist crap is just what our hobby needs, after all, you can never have too many snobs looking down their noses at you while you are just trying to enjoy a hobby in your spare time. For you "elite" collectors that are members of the ANA, it certainly appears your $35 was well spent, giving you the added self-esteem needed to think yourselves better than your fellow collectors. As for me, I'll let my coins testify as to my experience and knowledge of numismatics. And one last thing, I have had the pleasure of meeting in person a number of great collectors, the types of collectors that end up with pedigrees on their TPG holders, and the one thing these truly great numismatists had in common, was that they never proclaimed themselves elite. Instead, they were pleased to talk about virtually any aspect of the hobby with collectors who had far less experience and disposable income than they had.
I am a member, and have been before (I let my membership lapse). Although they are trying to reach out lately to all collectors, the ANA is the representative group of many of those collectors who's collections are featured in books, magazines, and auctions. I don't believe that there's much snob appeal there that can be attributed to the ANA though...most of the people who have those collections are students of numismatics and the research that they do is a boon for all collectors whether they belong to the ANA or not. There are some collectors who don't have time for newbies and small collectors, but I have not found many of these in any circle of numismatists, most are willing to help you with you collection. This goes for many of the big guys also...I have written to many of the "elite" collectors who's names are thrown about in the collecting circle and I can tell you that although my questions were probably at about third grade level to them, they always answered nicely and shared their knowledge.
I have never used the library, although I'd like to on occasion-I seldom read the magazine from cover to cover either. The reason that I joined is to make a contribution to US numismatics and the continuence of collecting as a hobby.
I have never used the library, although I'd like to on occasion-I seldom read the magazine from cover to cover either. The reason that I joined is to make a contribution to US numismatics and the continuence of collecting as a hobby.
QUOTE(jtryka @ Aug 9 2005, 10:21 AM)
Finally, I could do without your amateur psychoanalysis, but since we are on the subject, you might want to look into the insecurities presented in this thread by folks who seem to believe that you must join the ANA to be an "elite" collector. This type of good ol' down home elitist crap is just what our hobby needs, after all, you can never have too many snobs looking down their noses at you while you are just trying to enjoy a hobby in your spare time. For you "elite" collectors that are members of the ANA, it certainly appears your $35 was well spent, giving you the added self-esteem needed to think yourselves better than your fellow collectors. As for me, I'll let my coins testify as to my experience and knowledge of numismatics. And one last thing, I have had the pleasure of meeting in person a number of great collectors, the types of collectors that end up with pedigrees on their TPG holders, and the one thing these truly great numismatists had in common, was that they never proclaimed themselves elite. Instead, they were pleased to talk about virtually any aspect of the hobby with collectors who had far less experience and disposable income than they had.
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Agreed...
mmarottas post left a very bad taste in my mouth and my view towards ANA members was "Wow, thats how they are? Talk about a head trip, hollier then thou huh?"
Then I realized the others in this thread that say they are members and I have worked with them before and never had 1% of a problem.
Now I am back to seeing the ANA as a group of collectors, and as all groups of collectors, some think they are better then the rest. Thx Tiff and Blackhawk for restoring my faith in organized coin groups.
-Bobby
Don't let the impression that one person gives you about the ANA decide your opinion of the organisation. I rejoined the ANA last year, and have benefited greatly from membership in this organisation.
ANA members are just average people like most of us. There are a few snobs, and a few that think they are smarter than the rest of us, but that is society in general.
Your membership in the ANA is beneficial if you are willing to share your knowledge with others, and are willing to help say Young Numismatists etc. But you help out even if you share your opinions when you vote for the board of directors like I did recently and voted for candidates I believed would steer the organisation as a whole towards promoting coin collecting as a hobby.
ANA members are just average people like most of us. There are a few snobs, and a few that think they are smarter than the rest of us, but that is society in general.
Your membership in the ANA is beneficial if you are willing to share your knowledge with others, and are willing to help say Young Numismatists etc. But you help out even if you share your opinions when you vote for the board of directors like I did recently and voted for candidates I believed would steer the organisation as a whole towards promoting coin collecting as a hobby.
QUOTE(bobbycoin @ Aug 9 2005, 06:00 PM)
Me personaly, I would not join any club I had to pay anything more than a couple bucks to pay for a small newsletter or something. Coin prices? I ignore them. The redbook, used for refrence only, rarely do I look at a price guide at all
If I want a coin, I buy it. And I buy it at a price that I believe it is worth. If I want a coin and I think it would be better to have that coin then the $20 in my pocket, I would pay $20 for it even if redbook (or grey sheet or whatever) says its only worh 50 cents. Ripped off? no, Happy becasue I got a coin at the price I wanted to pay (plus I prob made that dealers day also).
All this talk about being an Elite or better then others because you are in a club.... meh. You can be just as educated and just as good (or better) a collector not being in any organizations then people who are. No tiers... No elite.. no one is special. We are coin collectors, period!
If I want a coin, I buy it. And I buy it at a price that I believe it is worth. If I want a coin and I think it would be better to have that coin then the $20 in my pocket, I would pay $20 for it even if redbook (or grey sheet or whatever) says its only worh 50 cents. Ripped off? no, Happy becasue I got a coin at the price I wanted to pay (plus I prob made that dealers day also).
All this talk about being an Elite or better then others because you are in a club.... meh. You can be just as educated and just as good (or better) a collector not being in any organizations then people who are. No tiers... No elite.. no one is special. We are coin collectors, period!
This is my way of thinking. Coin price guides? Who needs them... (says he who helps write one, but you know). Generally i'm in the school of buy on eye appeal, if you like the coin and you have the money for it. Well you only live once might as well just go and grab it, if it's overpriced does it really matter? Happiness and money are not necessarily the same thing. I'd personally would rather have the coin.
As for coin clubs i've never had the urge to join one. That and the UK doesn't have an equivalent of the ANA, the BNTA is the nearest but that's for dealers only i believe. Although i do try and buy from BNTA dealers because it's a good sign that their coins are genuine!
QUOTE(bobbycoin)
mmarottas post left a very bad taste in my mouth and my view towards ANA members was "Wow, thats how they are? Talk about a head trip, hollier then thou huh?"... Tiff and Blackhawk for restoring my faith in organized coin groups.
I continue to be amazed...
Look, how "elite" can it be if they let anyone join for $35?
Why do people not join the ANA?
They are penny wise and pound foolish.
How many ways can I say it?
I am sorry if people feel bad about it, but the fact is that the ANA has been America's coin club since 1891. They are chartered by Congress to serve the hobby. If you do not think that means you, then fine.
QUOTE(jtryka)
... And one last thing, I have had the pleasure of meeting in person a number of great collectors, the types of collectors that end up with pedigrees on their TPG holders, and the one thing these truly great numismatists had in common, was that they never proclaimed themselves elite. Instead, they were pleased to talk about virtually any aspect of the hobby with collectors who had far less experience and disposable income than they had.
Well, yes, there is that. You do confuse "collector" with "numismatist." I am not a collector. Registry sets do not impress me. They are fine. I am happy for the people who are happy owning them. But a registry set just proves that no matter how nice your coins are, someone has nicer ones. Competing with others on that basis is not for me. It is obviously fine for many other people.
Disposable income is another point. And it shows why "collectors" are not necessarily "numismatists" and vice versa. In the ANA and other clubs, the competitive Exhibits, you get judged on how hard you worked to assemble the material on display. The ANA and other clubs want to discourage people from walking into a coin store with a wad of cash, walking out with a few eye-knocking rarities and then putting them in a jeweler's case at a convention. That is not numismatics.
In the book, Confessions of a Numismatic Fanatic, Frank Robinson tells of the time that the headlines carried a story about a Brasher Doubloon changing hands at auction. His coin buddies were all awed. He said that he had coins rarer than a Brasher doubloon. They were Chinese cash and cost him no more than a few dollars each and were unique. Unique. He studied the coins, learned all he could find out about them. He learned to read Chinese. That is numismatics to me.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Aug 9 2005, 09:50 PM)
Disposable income is another point. And it shows why "collectors" are not necessarily "numismatists" and vice versa. In the ANA and other clubs, the competitive Exhibits, you get judged on how hard you worked to assemble the material on display. The ANA and other clubs want to discourage people from walking into a coin store with a wad of cash, walking out with a few eye-knocking rarities and then putting them in a jeweler's case at a convention. That is not numismatics.
If this is aimed at me i should point out i'm working on some rather tough sets, not because other people like then but because i get a kick out of it and i like the history. History is my love it always has been.
We're starting to go in a bad direction here. Keep it light, folks.
Wow. Sorry my topic has caused such a stir among everyone. Maybe I will find a small coin club in Toledo and hope for the best. I have met some really snobby collectors who brag about their AU Morgans (whoopie) and such.
I personally collect coins because I like the way they look or their history. Value of the coins plays a very minimal role in why I collect coins. I'm not one to just throw the coins in a jar labeled "neat stuff". I pride myself in preserving these coins and displaying them for everyone to see. Who cares if the neighbor has a nicer V Nickel than you do.
My questions have been answered well beyond what I expected. If needed this topic can be closed or whatever the admins see fit. ANA just doesn't seem to be the place for a lowly person like myself.
I personally collect coins because I like the way they look or their history. Value of the coins plays a very minimal role in why I collect coins. I'm not one to just throw the coins in a jar labeled "neat stuff". I pride myself in preserving these coins and displaying them for everyone to see. Who cares if the neighbor has a nicer V Nickel than you do.
My questions have been answered well beyond what I expected. If needed this topic can be closed or whatever the admins see fit. ANA just doesn't seem to be the place for a lowly person like myself.
"Burks", I think you're taking this thread the wrong way. I think just about everyone here is saying, if you're at all interested in numismatics and can afford the $36 (or less) per year, join the ANA...it's a no-brainer. I don't know why I waited so long myself.
I think some people here are just trying to be creative with their answer to you and it's coming off wrong.
I think some people here are just trying to be creative with their answer to you and it's coming off wrong.
QUOTE(Prethen @ Aug 9 2005, 04:50 PM)
I think some people here are just trying to be creative with their answer to you and it's coming off wrong.
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Oh how it has come off wrong.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Aug 9 2005, 05:41 AM)
The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset. We trade among ourselves at prices not...[right][snapback]44670[/snapback][/right]
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Aug 9 2005, 01:40 PM)
I continue to be amazed...
Look, how "elite" can it be if they let anyone join for $35?
Why do people not join the ANA?
They are penny wise and pound foolish.
How many ways can I say it?
I am sorry if people feel bad about it, but the fact is that the ANA has been America's coin club since 1891. They are chartered by Congress to serve the hobby. If you do not think that means you, then fine.
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Look, how "elite" can it be if they let anyone join for $35?
Why do people not join the ANA?
They are penny wise and pound foolish.
How many ways can I say it?
I am sorry if people feel bad about it, but the fact is that the ANA has been America's coin club since 1891. They are chartered by Congress to serve the hobby. If you do not think that means you, then fine.
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The issue here is someone changing tune as the thread goes on...
..That or they did a realy bad job of being sarcastic.
-Bobby
QUOTE(Burks @ Aug 9 2005, 02:56 PM)
Oh how it has come off wrong.
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I have to apoligize also that the thread went this way, But these are the type of thread where a lot of information comes out.
-Bobby
Hey, this what what we need a around here, some good old fashion coin talk fiestiness.
Hello gang!
I think the "elite" collector stuff was part of an attempt to present the arguments for the ANA using a funny and off-beat approach that included some sarcasm. Seeing that I'm pretty familiar with the folks posting most of the stuff, I feel free to say that.
It was all intended as fun. NOW it's getting a little carried away. The ANA is not in any way an elitest organization. Members come from all walks of life and income stratas. I can assure you that there are YNs in the ANA who work as interns at the conventions and such and have a net worth that puts mine to shame. They still work and save and display because they love collecting - not because they are elitest. The same is true of many adults in the ANA. I have several friends who are "local" collectors and ANA members who collect only US Gold. Fantastic collections, but really nice, down-to-earth, sharing folks.
Please put all those remarks aside and join or don't based upon what the ANA can do for you and for Numismatics in general.
Thank you.
I think the "elite" collector stuff was part of an attempt to present the arguments for the ANA using a funny and off-beat approach that included some sarcasm. Seeing that I'm pretty familiar with the folks posting most of the stuff, I feel free to say that.
It was all intended as fun. NOW it's getting a little carried away. The ANA is not in any way an elitest organization. Members come from all walks of life and income stratas. I can assure you that there are YNs in the ANA who work as interns at the conventions and such and have a net worth that puts mine to shame. They still work and save and display because they love collecting - not because they are elitest. The same is true of many adults in the ANA. I have several friends who are "local" collectors and ANA members who collect only US Gold. Fantastic collections, but really nice, down-to-earth, sharing folks.
Please put all those remarks aside and join or don't based upon what the ANA can do for you and for Numismatics in general.
Thank you.
Art.
Ty Art for clearing that up...
Im so used to seeing
after posts made in jest.
-Bobby
Im so used to seeing
after posts made in jest.-Bobby
So, yes, Michael was being facetious and Art a calming influence -- nothing changes the fact that the ANA is THE organization which epitomizes the very essence of how and why we all even know each other. I've been a member of the ANA for twenty-five years and converted to a life-member some years back -- I'm certainly NOT an elitist and NOT an arrogant snob who cares if he know more or less than the next guy does about the wonderful world of Numismatics -- I derive just as much pleasure in teaching a young, wide-eyed collector as I do in learning things I never knew. Joining the ANA is simply the natural course of events if you love this hobby -- plain and simple. I have contacts on my 'Buddy List' that would surprise most and NEVER hesitate to utilize my membership in any way necessary. The NUMISMATIST is informative, enjoyable and even humorous and is a superbly printed monthly magazine. Read Michael Marotta's latest column or Donn Pearlman's tongue-in-cheek comments then 'trash' the magazine that 'comes along for the $35 annual fee'...
QUOTE(tommyd @ Aug 10 2005, 03:22 AM)
Read Michael Marotta's latest column or Donn Pearlman's tongue-in-cheek comments then 'trash' the magazine that 'comes along for the $35 annual fee'...
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You actually read Donn Pearlmanns comments? I get about 12 pages from the end of the mag and it hits the shredder.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Aug 9 2005, 04:50 PM)
In the book, Confessions of a Numismatic Fanatic, Frank Robinson tells of the time that the headlines carried a story about a Brasher Doubloon changing hands at auction. His coin buddies were all awed. He said that he had coins rarer than a Brasher doubloon. They were Chinese cash and cost him no more than a few dollars each and were unique. Unique. He studied the coins, learned all he could find out about them. He learned to read Chinese. That is numismatics to me.
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The Judge is one of my favorite people in this hobby though I haven't yet read his book. That should go on my 'to do list" for this year, along with remembering to get home early on Sunday afternoons in hopes of being first to see his thrice a year list.
Yeah I'm an ANA member - and most of you here know me. Some of you know me pretty well - others do not. But for those that do - you know what kind of person I am. And I agree, Michael's attempt at sarcasm didn't come off very well. But then that's because not everybody knows Michael. Sometimes my posts don't come off very well either with people that don't know me well.
But I gotta say this - there are great many collectors out there who take what Michael had to say as gospel - without ever reading what he said. Because that IS the opinion that a great many collectors have of the ANA. And that I believe was the point that Michael was trying to make.
Now I find that sad, but sad or not it's true. There are far too many who think of the ANA members as being a bunch of elitists- stereotyping at it's worst. But nothing could be further from the truth. The vast majority of ANA members will break their backs trying to help others. They'll spend countless hours doing research about a coin that somebody asks a question about. They get nothing out of it - they do it to help someone, a fellow collector that they've never even met before.
Kinda reminds of you of some of the people around here doesn't it ? Well - that's because some of the people around here ARE ANA members. There are others that are not members yes, and they try just as hard to help others. But they're the same kind of people members or not.
So if you want to learn about this hobby we all love - and share that knowledge with others while doing so - then join the ANA. You'll find a whole lot of people just like you already there.
But I gotta say this - there are great many collectors out there who take what Michael had to say as gospel - without ever reading what he said. Because that IS the opinion that a great many collectors have of the ANA. And that I believe was the point that Michael was trying to make.
Now I find that sad, but sad or not it's true. There are far too many who think of the ANA members as being a bunch of elitists- stereotyping at it's worst. But nothing could be further from the truth. The vast majority of ANA members will break their backs trying to help others. They'll spend countless hours doing research about a coin that somebody asks a question about. They get nothing out of it - they do it to help someone, a fellow collector that they've never even met before.
Kinda reminds of you of some of the people around here doesn't it ? Well - that's because some of the people around here ARE ANA members. There are others that are not members yes, and they try just as hard to help others. But they're the same kind of people members or not.
So if you want to learn about this hobby we all love - and share that knowledge with others while doing so - then join the ANA. You'll find a whole lot of people just like you already there.
Thank you all for the replies. This is why I love CoinPeople. We all know how hard it is to spot sarcasm (well sometimes) over the Internet and I guess what Michael said struck me as being an "off" comment.
YUP! That's why I am still here. I love the people here and how everyone is willing to help. As you noticed, I may have asked some pretty dumb questions over the last few weeks and have had more than enough information thrown at me, which is great.
I'll see how the bills work out next month and if I can afford it, I'll join. There are worse ways to waste $36
QUOTE(GDJMSP @ Aug 9 2005, 09:49 PM)
Kinda reminds of you of some of the people around here doesn't it ? Well - that's because some of the people around here ARE ANA members.
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YUP! That's why I am still here. I love the people here and how everyone is willing to help. As you noticed, I may have asked some pretty dumb questions over the last few weeks and have had more than enough information thrown at me, which is great.
I'll see how the bills work out next month and if I can afford it, I'll join. There are worse ways to waste $36
I let my ANA membership lapse many moons ago due to a financial crunch. And, as in so many other areas of my life, it just became easier to 'forget' about them than to think of them.
This thread , and the latest copy of Numismatic News with all the coverage of the recent convention, has awakend my interest in re-joining. I know I won't get my old 5-digit membership number back; however, if all goes very well, I may get a Life membership.
I'd forgotten about the Library. I've been to a few ANA conventions and they are a blast! The 99% of the folks I've met thru ANA are all right. Better than all right, they want to spread the joy they've had to others. ANA is a powerful voice in Washington. ANA supports the local and regional clubs, too.
I guess I've talked myself into getting back in...
This thread , and the latest copy of Numismatic News with all the coverage of the recent convention, has awakend my interest in re-joining. I know I won't get my old 5-digit membership number back; however, if all goes very well, I may get a Life membership.
I'd forgotten about the Library. I've been to a few ANA conventions and they are a blast! The 99% of the folks I've met thru ANA are all right. Better than all right, they want to spread the joy they've had to others. ANA is a powerful voice in Washington. ANA supports the local and regional clubs, too.
I guess I've talked myself into getting back in...
Thanks to Art (twice), Prethen, Ukraina Dvi, Blackhawk, Tiffibunny, tommyd, GDJMSP, and whohah for plucking my chestnuts from the fire. I went back and re-read my first reply in a different tone of voice.
Factually -- just factually -- there is nothing I would retract, humor, sarcasm, or whatever aside. If joining the ANA were really worth it to the average collector, then more average collectors would join -- and stay joined. (The ANA has about a 1/3 turnover in new members each year.) The fact is that most of the 30,000 ANA members subscribe or have subscribed to Coin World and/or Numismatic News, but that the overwhelming majority, two-to-one, of Coin World subscribers are not ANA members. There must be some reason why.
The disconnect in my first reply came at this line:
"The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset." Nothing in that said anything about "looking down their noses at you."
Apparently -- and not surprisingly -- some people think that it is impossible for someone to be excellent unless other people are worse. At a deeper level, I feel that such an attitude is the difference between jealousy and envy.
To me, the ANA is an egalitarian, democratic organization open to anyone -- even if you do not have the $36 per year. Anyone can attend an ANA convention. Just walk in the door and there are the world Mints, the hobby newspapers, and 300 dealers just waiting to meet you. The ANA and its members perform a wide range of community service in numismatics, not the least of which is creating those periodicals that non-members read in large numbers.
I did not become a numismatist when I joined the ANA. I joined the ANA because I perceived myself as a numismatist: I wanted to know about the coin more than I wanted to own the coin. If there were no ANA, I would still be me -- and I would be defining the hobby and my role in it for myself. Ultimately, we all do just that.
Factually -- just factually -- there is nothing I would retract, humor, sarcasm, or whatever aside. If joining the ANA were really worth it to the average collector, then more average collectors would join -- and stay joined. (The ANA has about a 1/3 turnover in new members each year.) The fact is that most of the 30,000 ANA members subscribe or have subscribed to Coin World and/or Numismatic News, but that the overwhelming majority, two-to-one, of Coin World subscribers are not ANA members. There must be some reason why.
The disconnect in my first reply came at this line:
"The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset." Nothing in that said anything about "looking down their noses at you."
QUOTE
jtryka: "This type of good ol' down home elitist crap is just what our hobby needs, after all, you can never have too many snobs looking down their noses at you while you are just trying to enjoy a hobby in your spare time."
Apparently -- and not surprisingly -- some people think that it is impossible for someone to be excellent unless other people are worse. At a deeper level, I feel that such an attitude is the difference between jealousy and envy.
To me, the ANA is an egalitarian, democratic organization open to anyone -- even if you do not have the $36 per year. Anyone can attend an ANA convention. Just walk in the door and there are the world Mints, the hobby newspapers, and 300 dealers just waiting to meet you. The ANA and its members perform a wide range of community service in numismatics, not the least of which is creating those periodicals that non-members read in large numbers.
I did not become a numismatist when I joined the ANA. I joined the ANA because I perceived myself as a numismatist: I wanted to know about the coin more than I wanted to own the coin. If there were no ANA, I would still be me -- and I would be defining the hobby and my role in it for myself. Ultimately, we all do just that.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Aug 10 2005, 02:27 PM)
I did not become a numismatist when I joined the ANA. I joined the ANA because I perceived myself as a numismatist: I wanted to know about the coin more than I wanted to own the coin. If there were no ANA, I would still be me -- and I would be defining the hobby and my role in it for myself. Ultimately, we all do just that.
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I'm gonna have to throw my twopenn'orth in here too. As Michael's post above i too believe you don't have to be in the ANA to be a numismatist. I would regard myself as a numismatist of some sort. Perhaps an eccentric one but still i've happily gone looking stuff up and identifying coins for people on the internet i've never met before and after giving them the answer they required i've never seen them again. I do it because i enjoy it. I guess it's things like this, studying coins, learning about them and their contexts, identifying new types, finding errors, a whole scale of things ranging from the mundane to the exceptional. This is what makes a person a numismatist not the organisation they belong to.
And i'm perfectly sure there are elitist collectors out there that don't associate with an organisation.
Perhaps i'm a little slow off the mark but i sensed nothing in that thread that really went pearshaped (except my reply which went a bit OT as they often do
). Michael's initial post perhaps not as excellently crafted as usual but i guess i just know Michael better than i thought. I figured there was sarcasm in there somewhere... i'm going OT again.Join the ANA or don't join the ANA, it won't make you any less of a collector or any more of a collector if you do or don't. And that's my 1/6th of a shilling on it.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Aug 10 2005, 08:27 AM)
Apparently -- and not surprisingly -- some people think that it is impossible for someone to be excellent unless other people are worse. At a deeper level, I feel that such an attitude is the difference between jealousy and envy.
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Ok, you got me, I am a firm believer in the "excellence requires someone to be worse" theory of coin collecting. And I guess I am jealous of the ANA and just full of bitter and spiteful envy because I am not a part of their elite organization.
Now pardon me if I am going over these points again, but I just want to make sure that I follow your logic completely. The ANA is an elite organization of collectors and numismatists with 30,000 member. Let's just say conservatively there are perhaps 1 million people in the US actively involved with the hobby, so that would mean only 3% of collectors are ANA members. Ok so far, that sound like an elite group, but then you only need to pay $36 a year to be a part of the group, and sometimes you don't even need that. Now the logic breaks down. You have the appearance of an elite group, without any of the actual standards that would make the group truly elite. It sounds more to me like you have a group of people chartered by Congress who can't seem to convince 97% of their target audience that they have any relevance.
That irrelevance was vividly illustrated when despite the ANA's "influence" in Washington, they could do nothing to stop the Smithsonian from mothballing the NNC. It wasn't until some fine members of the numismatic community stepped up to find the collection a home that we had any hope of seeing those great rarities in person again. While I am sure the ANA was supportive of these efforts, shouldn't they, the elite among the hobby have taken a lead role in ensuring that the national coin collection wouldn't be relegated to long-term storage in a basement in DC?
Certainly, if anyone wants to join the ANA, more power to you! It's your decision, and you should do what's best for you. Personally, I had a negative experience with the ANA for what amounts to a pretty dumb clerical error, but my negative experience was made much worse thanks to this thread and Mr. Marrotta's comments. Now if you'll all excuse me, I need to go crack open a whole lot of slabs so I can put my coin collection back into a jar where it apparently belongs.
QUOTE(jtryka @ Aug 10 2005, 03:49 PM)
Now if you'll all excuse me, I need to go crack open a whole lot of slabs so I can put my coin collection back into a jar where it apparently belongs.
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Noooo! Don't put those splendid coins in a Jar... but feel free to crack them out and ship them to me, i can offer each of them a full furnished place in my coin cabinet and they'll be very well looked after.
So many saints.
I have been a member for 5 or 6 years. I love the magazine. I also get the warm fuzzy of supporting theorganization which, regardless of all the faults people might be able to bring up, does do some good in the hobby.
As an aside, after 'knowing' Michael online for quite some time, his post made me smile rather than get my dander up. And he does, as usual, make some good points in the process.
As an aside, after 'knowing' Michael online for quite some time, his post made me smile rather than get my dander up.
And he does, as usual, make some good points in the process.
Loved the post Mike,, rattle them cages.... good stuff !!
OK - Let me see if I've read this thread right and can provide summary:
Upshot - Join or don't, up to you.
Moral - Wear thicker skin.,, grain of salt,,, etc.......
There were actually some interesting aspects of the hobby laced within Michaels post.....unfortunately they were "nicely" sidesteped and unaddressed by the group as we discussed the 'texture', 'color', and 'taste' of the wine.
So how about the meat:
Coin collecting makes folks MONEY.
ANA promotes the hobby and increased the flow of MONEY.
Go high enough in any organization and you find 1 or 3 folks who run the show and reap most of the MONEY.
SO HOW DOES ANA MAKE THESE FOLKS MONEY (that's the real purpose of ANA,, remember this is the USA)
I think we've adequately addressed how ANA benefits it's members culinary aptitude,, but no one's touched on how ANA elite really do "make the market". I'd be interested to hear more about how the bid dogs within the ANA employ the membership to their advantage in order to make MONEY.
.... pass coins between themselves at heavy discount.
..... dictate price guide 'guidance'
..... inside information,,, congressional lobbying.... etc.
Sounds sarcastic, and maybe dismissable as funny,,,,, but I'm betting there interesting truths yet undiscussed in any detail regarding these issues.
I like collection coins and accept that in general I'm getting screwged from a economic side 'most' of the time I buy a coin. I also enjoy the watching the coin market movement and playing within it at a low level.
If there's truth in there,, then I'd say a collector joining the ANA would be abit akin to a Sheep joining the Wolf's club.
Either your a dumb ol' sheep who's gonna get ate,, or
your a smart ol' sheep who's trying to stay alive long enough to learn how to be a Wolf.
.... Anyone in the forum know how to howl ?
"baaaaaa"
OK - Let me see if I've read this thread right and can provide summary:
Upshot - Join or don't, up to you.
Moral - Wear thicker skin.,, grain of salt,,, etc.......
There were actually some interesting aspects of the hobby laced within Michaels post.....unfortunately they were "nicely" sidesteped and unaddressed by the group as we discussed the 'texture', 'color', and 'taste' of the wine.
So how about the meat:
Coin collecting makes folks MONEY.
ANA promotes the hobby and increased the flow of MONEY.
Go high enough in any organization and you find 1 or 3 folks who run the show and reap most of the MONEY.
SO HOW DOES ANA MAKE THESE FOLKS MONEY (that's the real purpose of ANA,, remember this is the USA)
I think we've adequately addressed how ANA benefits it's members culinary aptitude,, but no one's touched on how ANA elite really do "make the market". I'd be interested to hear more about how the bid dogs within the ANA employ the membership to their advantage in order to make MONEY.
.... pass coins between themselves at heavy discount.
..... dictate price guide 'guidance'
..... inside information,,, congressional lobbying.... etc.
Sounds sarcastic, and maybe dismissable as funny,,,,, but I'm betting there interesting truths yet undiscussed in any detail regarding these issues.
I like collection coins and accept that in general I'm getting screwged from a economic side 'most' of the time I buy a coin. I also enjoy the watching the coin market movement and playing within it at a low level.
If there's truth in there,, then I'd say a collector joining the ANA would be abit akin to a Sheep joining the Wolf's club.
Either your a dumb ol' sheep who's gonna get ate,, or
your a smart ol' sheep who's trying to stay alive long enough to learn how to be a Wolf.
.... Anyone in the forum know how to howl ?
"baaaaaa"
One of the best satirical pieces I have read in a long time. Loved it! Needs an award for "best tongue-in-cheek" piece of 2005.
QUOTE(mmarotta @ Aug 9 2005, 07:41 AM)
Most coin collectors do not join the ANA because you do get much for the $35 per year. You get a magazine; that is about it. The magazine is not that interesting.
You are better off keeping your money and buying whatever coins you feel like, paying whatever price you think is fair. You can find out all about coins from the internet, by asking people here and elsewhere when you want to know something.
The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset. We trade among ourselves at prices not available to the general public. We discover the die varieties and all that stuff and after we buy all the coins we can find from each other, then someone writes a book. That creates collector demand and we sell to them at the next level of prices. We call it "cherrypicking."
In fact, ANA members write just about every book on coin collecting and generally speaking only ANA members buy them. It is sort of like a co-operative. Some books like "cherrypicking" books and the Red Book that announces prices are sold to many collectors who are not ANA members. Those collectors are the retail market for ANA members and dealers.
Say I am a dealer and I find that I have 1500 Seated Quarters in the back of the safe. Well, I have to get rid of them. So, when the new Red Book is being prepared, I help the editor, former ANA president Ken Bressett, set the price of Seated Quarters. It cannot be too high, but must not be too low and it has to be high enough in the Red Book so that I can say, "The Red Book is too high... Tell you what I am going to do for you..."
ANA members edit and write all of the hobby periodicals: Coins, CoinAge, Coin World, Numismatic News, Coin Prices, etc., etc. These are sold mostly to non-ANA members who figure that reading a magazine from a newsstand tells them all they need to know -- and it does. They do not need to know more than that. That next level of knowledge is only for ANA members. Numismatist magazine is just for us.
ANA members serve on the Citizens Coin Advisory Committee and help Congress decide what coins to authorize. Congress does not always listen to us, of course. That is Congress. This is why certain coins are made with certain designs. The other people who collect what they like because it feels good buy whatever is left over. Sometimes, there is not much left over and prices on these commemoratives rise. That is what we are looking for, of course: special profits from public programs for ANA members and ANA dealers. Certainly, non-members get lucky and "win" the opportunity to buy a commemorative before they all run out. If that did not happen, the market would dry up. Think of it like a lotto: the promise of winning is why people play.
ANA members go to national conventions where 300 dealers from around the world compete against each other for the attention of buyers. Most collectors bid against each other on eBay and claim that they "won" a coin by "sniping" it to the highest possible price. Of course, having blown their money that way, most collectors "cannot afford" to go to a national convention.
At ANA conventions, you meet not only the US Mint, but 10 to 30 other Mints from the Ukraine, the United Kingdom, Singapore, Perth, Canada, Austria, etc. ANA members are a huge buying block for these Mints and we help them define their marketing strategies by meeting with them privately at conventions.
While it is true ANA members control the hobby, you probably will not get much out of being an ANA member.
Look at it this way. Over 10 million people in American claim to "collect coins." That includes people who stash State Quarters and Kennedy Halves and whatever else they like or seems interesting. Only 1 to 2 million people in America buy Proof Sets and Mint Sets. Only 100,000 people subscribe to Coin World. Only 30,000 collectors belong to the ANA.
Now, if the ANA were such a big deal, all those 100,000 Coin World readers would be members. Would not most of those 2 million Proof Set buyers be members? Maybe only half of those 10 million part time collectors would join. None of them does because obviously the ANA is not worth $35 per year to the average collector.
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You are better off keeping your money and buying whatever coins you feel like, paying whatever price you think is fair. You can find out all about coins from the internet, by asking people here and elsewhere when you want to know something.
The ANA is for the elite few numismatists who form a special subset. We trade among ourselves at prices not available to the general public. We discover the die varieties and all that stuff and after we buy all the coins we can find from each other, then someone writes a book. That creates collector demand and we sell to them at the next level of prices. We call it "cherrypicking."
In fact, ANA members write just about every book on coin collecting and generally speaking only ANA members buy them. It is sort of like a co-operative. Some books like "cherrypicking" books and the Red Book that announces prices are sold to many collectors who are not ANA members. Those collectors are the retail market for ANA members and dealers.
Say I am a dealer and I find that I have 1500 Seated Quarters in the back of the safe. Well, I have to get rid of them. So, when the new Red Book is being prepared, I help the editor, former ANA president Ken Bressett, set the price of Seated Quarters. It cannot be too high, but must not be too low and it has to be high enough in the Red Book so that I can say, "The Red Book is too high... Tell you what I am going to do for you..."
ANA members edit and write all of the hobby periodicals: Coins, CoinAge, Coin World, Numismatic News, Coin Prices, etc., etc. These are sold mostly to non-ANA members who figure that reading a magazine from a newsstand tells them all they need to know -- and it does. They do not need to know more than that. That next level of knowledge is only for ANA members. Numismatist magazine is just for us.
ANA members serve on the Citizens Coin Advisory Committee and help Congress decide what coins to authorize. Congress does not always listen to us, of course. That is Congress. This is why certain coins are made with certain designs. The other people who collect what they like because it feels good buy whatever is left over. Sometimes, there is not much left over and prices on these commemoratives rise. That is what we are looking for, of course: special profits from public programs for ANA members and ANA dealers. Certainly, non-members get lucky and "win" the opportunity to buy a commemorative before they all run out. If that did not happen, the market would dry up. Think of it like a lotto: the promise of winning is why people play.
ANA members go to national conventions where 300 dealers from around the world compete against each other for the attention of buyers. Most collectors bid against each other on eBay and claim that they "won" a coin by "sniping" it to the highest possible price. Of course, having blown their money that way, most collectors "cannot afford" to go to a national convention.
At ANA conventions, you meet not only the US Mint, but 10 to 30 other Mints from the Ukraine, the United Kingdom, Singapore, Perth, Canada, Austria, etc. ANA members are a huge buying block for these Mints and we help them define their marketing strategies by meeting with them privately at conventions.
While it is true ANA members control the hobby, you probably will not get much out of being an ANA member.
Look at it this way. Over 10 million people in American claim to "collect coins." That includes people who stash State Quarters and Kennedy Halves and whatever else they like or seems interesting. Only 1 to 2 million people in America buy Proof Sets and Mint Sets. Only 100,000 people subscribe to Coin World. Only 30,000 collectors belong to the ANA.
Now, if the ANA were such a big deal, all those 100,000 Coin World readers would be members. Would not most of those 2 million Proof Set buyers be members? Maybe only half of those 10 million part time collectors would join. None of them does because obviously the ANA is not worth $35 per year to the average collector.
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QUOTE(Rabone @ Aug 16 2005, 06:55 PM)
One of the best satirical pieces I have read in a long time. Loved it! Needs an award for "best tongue-in-cheek" piece of 2005.
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I agree!! I was literally lol as I was reading it. then I realized that some others had misinterpreted what he said as being offensive, and that made this thread even funnier than it was before. I formally nominate Michael's post for a PotW award, it was easily that good!
Thanks for makin fun of us guys
man I feel like sh** cuz I didnt get the joke.... Thanks... Thanks a lot
-Bobby
man I feel like sh** cuz I didnt get the joke.... Thanks... Thanks a lot
-Bobby
QUOTE(bobbycoin @ Aug 17 2005, 06:21 PM)
Thanks for makin fun of us guys
man I feel like sh** cuz I didnt get the joke.... Thanks... Thanks a lot
-Bobby
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man I feel like sh** cuz I didnt get the joke.... Thanks... Thanks a lot
-Bobby
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I got the drift of Mike's joke right away and had a sinister chuckle myself too, but I guess it is because I have read enough of his material to know his style.
I have not wanted to post earlier because this thread seemed to go on too serious a tangent for me. However, now that you already feel like sh**, I find that I may freely add my comment without offending anyone nor making anyone feel like sh**.
Ähh!, it is one of the downsides of the net, when you cannot see a writer's tongue in the cheek. Do not worry about it. Having written for some time, I am sure Mike has already grown a nice layer of thick skin.
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