I grade old school.

Fair, F, VF, EF, UNC, BU & Gem UNC. With 'a', 'n' or 'g' applied as a prefix where necessary.


Generally i don't use grades, Poor-VG much (i tend to group them as Fair).

I like your system ... easier to understand than MS-67.75

Agree, I never use numbers unless it's already on the slab.

Sounds just like the grading system I use, so are you going to compensate me for copyright infringement???

G, VG, F, VF, EF, AU, Uncirc, BU, choice BU, Gem. All represent parts of the 4-70 scale. Using the small 'a' before the grade is a way of saying that the coin is at the top of the grade below. Eliminating 0-4 is what I usually do. aG would be a 3 or thereabouts. Getting into the MS numbers is something I uasually avoid unless I say something like," MS63ish", to show that I mean it's my opinion only and not a certified grade.

I use them all

I use all standard words. I rarely have to use poor, fair, and about good (in reference to 1 and 2 on the # scale), but I do like their use because I've bought "fair" stuff from British dealers at VG prices that turned out to be AG coins...

Standard British practice is to just use 'Fair' to denote anything below AF. Some hammered dealers do sell stuff as VG but it's not a grade that gets much use. Most people here try and stay VF or higher and thus demand for low grade coins is not sufficient to warrant a separation of the grades (but UK coins are cheaper than US coins and coin collecting is not as popular and thus coins are cheaper in VF here than they are in the States so there's no real reason why not to collect in the mid-higher grades). The Spinks book (the Redbook of UK coins) shows pictures of Fair, F, VF, EF and sometimes UNC.

They do explain what Good and VG are but never seem to price coins up in those grades, they just use Fair.


Infact until i got the internet i didn't actually know 'good' was a grade in it's own right.

well I never buy anything below XF so
I use XF XF+ AU UNC BU and FDC
FDC being Fleur de Coin
FDC seems to equate to MS65 MS66 or higher

I'm perfectly fine if you sold me coins based upon such gradings, as you would have at least known some boundary of such grades. Of course, if you have some inexperienced coin collectors or even people who don't even collect coins, as in, "wow, this coin is so old and it is in a decent condition!" - that is one line I am not going to buy into.

I guess I am still trying to figure out MS grading system. Now it would be really nice if there happens to be some insane "catalogue" that shows all the grades from 1-70.

Grading goldcoins in the MS range toke me a year
Attached link is a start

http://www.coingrading.com/surfpres1.html

I prefer the numeric system over the alternate "descriptive" method. Just as some of you said that you prefer to lump g, vg, poor, as FAIR, it ends up not being very descriptive of the actual coin, especially with all that unnessary variability introduced by the arbitrary massing of disparagant conditions.

With a numeric system some of that is taken care of and people can more easily come to an agreement on a grade through the numeric system than the verbose.

I use the full Sheldon scale from FA2-MS70. That's what the market uses so that's what I use. There's a big difference in both appearance and value between say VF20 and VF35 or AU50 and AU58.

Exactly the same! I find trouble discerning between poor-good-very good, so I do as you do. I prefer the descriptive system, and I think it's done the British coin trade a lot of good to stay away from a numerical system, because there's no micro-grading with frankly ludicrous premiums between say, MS64 and 65.

That is what I use.

I hear that one so many times and it turns out to be something like a 1965 Roosevelt dime with a hole in it. There's one fellow who buys coins from me who will sometimes refer to a Barber dime in aG being in "perfick shape".

Exactly. If there's a better scale of grading, I haven't found it yet.

..I had a "fair" coin once that was just a little better than Fr2, but not quite an AG3, though it was slightly more on the side of AG3, but not quite an AG3+, but definitely didn't qualify as the Fr2, although I couldn't feel good calling it an AG3, I also coudn't demote it down to a Fr2...............................

So I use:

Fr 1, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, 1.4, 1.5......2.6, 2.7...

G 4, 4.1, 4.11, 4.12, 4.13.......

all the way to:

MS 60, 60.001, 60.002, 60.003.....

.........this REALLY works for me, but it takes 6 weeks to get a grade on each coin I have!

Couldn't you have said AG3- or FR2+

Don't like numbers don't like using them. I'm a words man... as soon as we get to nought point anything i run for cover.

As I've already said on the Predecimal forum, Who grades the graders? and do they all have electron microscopes to discern minute differences? A case of too many people trying to complicate a simple process. Grade as YOU see it!

I'll take my hat off to that!


Best statement yet on this subject and one i could not have put better myself.

'Course there are some very damaged coins which need new descriptors such as TU (tore up) PNR (Purt' Nigh Rurned) and for extreme damage cases AFU for which no explanation is necessary.

You could just put, VF - Destroyed. (i.e polished).

Also i don't think eye appeal should be taken into account for grading. Eye appeal is far too subjective (the dealer should be left to describe that as additional to the grade).

VF - attractive tone
EF - Unsightly streaks


(Of which i've seen both used).


Another reason why not to grade on eye appeal is that one man's treasure is another man's idea of a coin with a nasty fake looking rainbow tone much akin to spilt oil on the road that needs a good dip.

Hi, I'm from Europe (German living in Switzerland). Therefore, I don't use the American Standard of coin grading. As you all may know, there's still the old way in grading coins. But this doesn't mean that the preservation of a coin is not important to the collectors.

The standard grades (above G, VG) in Europe are as follow:

"schoen" = s = F
"sehr schoen" = ss = VF
"vorzueglich" = vz = XF
"stempelglanz" = st = BU

Additionally, we have been using s-ss (F/VF); ss-vz (VF/XF) etc. for grades between these rough definitions.

Since a couple of years, more and more dealers and collectors are using finer grades. For instance, some use a numeric system, which takes care of the increasing weithing of quality-awareness:

Here's my try of a rough translation of this scale:

0,0 = Proof
0,1 = Proof minus (proof with very slight problems like hairlines etc.)
0,8 = perfect coin (may compare with MS-69,70)
0,9 = exceptional BU. very low number of minor problems.
1,0 = BU; a low number of very little problems are visible without magnification
1,1 = Uncirculated with slight minor problems caused by post-manufacturing process or transport
1,2 = Uncirculated; like coins from fresh mint rolls
1,5 = About uncirculated, like coins from fresh mint rolls with a bit more problems
1,8 = between XF and AU
2,0 = XF; problems like rim nicks must be mentioned.
2,2 = about XF
2,8 = very good VF
3,0 = VF; bigger problems must be mentioned
3,2 = about VF
4,0 = F; problems are not mentioned.

With proof coins with more problems, we say "XF from Proof" etc.
As you can see, the integer values 1,2,3,4 represent the old grading standard.

Eye appeal is always excluded from grading itself.
Anyhow, an exceptional eye appeal will be mentioned.

Cheers,
jeggy

I agree that eye appeal is in the eye of the beholder. I like toned coins, but I realize that to some people, toning detracts from the beauty of the coin.

I buy mainly in Germany and secondary in France

The Germans have Bankfrisch which is the lowest grades of MS60-63
Then they have Stempelglanz which is roughly MS63-65
Then in theory they have Handgehoben which is MS65 plus

I have several conversion tables by people that do not understand
American grading at all
My main criticism is that FDC (fleur de coin) is MS 65 plus and not uncirculated
and BU is very inderiminate so I would say MS63-MS64

Scroll down to bottom of this link
http://www.anumis.de/lexikon/e/pe079.html

Here is another
http://www.predecimal.com/gradingchart.htm

Even if the grade is given you still have to take into account that most vendors do not know how to grade accurately and if they do some will overgrade to see whether you know how to grade accurately

Most of the stuff i buy i usually buy it from sellers that don't state a grade at all. And even if the seller does grade it i usually ignore that grade and grade it myself. Generally i tend to agree with the sellers i deal with but sometimes i think sellers have both overgraded and on occasions undergraded the coins they have had.

I've seen some George II Young head sixpences for sale that i would grade as GEF, if not AUNC. I can't remember if the sellers stated a grade or not but since they nearly had full eyes i could grade them with accuracy.

On the subject of BU (Brilliant UNC).


I find some people over complicate this grade by trying to equate it to MS65 or whatever.

BU in British terms is actually far more simple than that.

If a coin is Uncirculated be it MS60-MS65 then it's simply UNC, if it's above MS65 then Gem UNC. If it's MS68 or higher then it's Super Gem UNC. Although generally i totally discount that grade and stick with Gem. Although generally i don't use Gem myself when describing my own coins. I just label all my UNCs as UNCs, it's adequate no need to over complicate things.


BU on the other hand is basically any kind of UNC coin with full lustre intact. So bronze coins with full mint bloom/brilliance are BU. 90% lustre Copper is not BU.

Brilliant white silver coins are also BU, toned silver coins are not.

You might have a toned coin that would grade Gem UNC and thus be in a higher grade state than a white coin with full mint lustre. So Gem UNC can be better than BU.

"Handgehoben" is no common term in grading. It's a special term used mainly by the Austrians. Their current mint sets and commemorative coins are of exceptional quality, they call it "handgehoben", which means "taken from the die by hand". In reality, they have postprocessing with systematics which handles the coins with more care than the common standard (of other countries)

With a serious dealer, MS-66 is "stempelglanz" (FDC) and above. MS-64/65 is "fast stempelglanz" (nearly FDC). MS-62/63 is unz/st (between UNC and FDC), MS-60/61 is unz (UNC). If you read "st fein", "stempelglanz fein" or "st+", this should be MS-67 and above. For great eye appeal, you read "Prachtexemplar" (translated as "splendid specimen")

Serious German coin dealers are member of the dealer association "Der Berufsverband des deutschen Muenzenfachhandels e.V." - they have to commit to accurate grading. It is recommended to purchase coins from members of this association. Dealers which overgrade coins, are either "ebay trash dealers" or they will lose their reputation within a short time. Collectors are communicative people

jeggy

Jeggy

like I said different forums give different translations
and I respect your interpretation

http://www.anumis.de/lexikon/e/pe079.html
http://www.muenzen-lexikon.de/lexikon/s/ps280.html
http://users.skynet.be/bart.vandensteen/nu...waliteiten.html
http://www.predecimal.com/gradingchart.htm
http://www.doebelinet.ch/worldcoins/bewertung/bewertung.htm
http://www.eurocoins.liesemeijer.com/Grading.html

I use something for myself based on my understanding
and speaking german , french ; and english

stempelglanz is BU by definition of language
FDC means fleur de coin = flower coming out of the mould which by definition means the nicest the mold can produce
So by definition FDC has to be better then BU or stempelglanz
Now this is academic of course since nearly all ebay vendors will say look at the nice picture and honest vendors may grade correctly or lower so that you are happy when you receive the coin

However there is one vendor who has systematically been providing perfect pictures and germanwise perfect grading
He is atp50

http://stores.ebay.de/Briefmarken-Munzen-T...sQ3amesstQQtZkm

When I correspond with my american friend I have adopted the american
system an MS 63 correctly graded will allways be an MS63 in any language

This is one of the coins I consider FDC

Since I mostly deal with circ coins, I typically use the standard USian grades without any number distinctions. AG G VG F VF EF AU. I don't usually use any numbers like G4, G6 and I like the a, n, g stuff and the + - stuff about as well as I like MS67.5...which is to say not at all.


When I grade MS coins it is usually 60, 63, 65. Anything above 65 is either too expensive for me to worry about or I can't tell much of a difference...like between 68 and 69 and 70.

Being another English collector I tend to grade 'old school' or posibly 'olde worlde' as this is what I am most used to and what is most used for british coins. However, since I also collect coins of the USA I initially grade them old school but convert them to the numerical grade later using the appropriate book. Therefore each collection then tends to be graded in the fashion most familiar to them (if that makes sense).

Regards,

PAB

For non-US Fine, gFine, aVF, VF, gVF, aEF, EF

For US I like

AG, G, VG, F, VF, EF, AU, BU, Choice BU, Gem BU, Superb BU
My BUs are usually 2-3 of the existing grading points which is as close as I need to get for aesthetic purposes.

BU I always find to be an odd term as it can refer to anything for silver from MS60-70. Especially bad are those coins from mint bags which have been abused (ie. tossed or kicked around)

My method is rather unique and is reserved for special collectors like me. If its nice, shiney, reasonably scratch free I give it a "I'll keep that one grade". If it looks like crap I give it a " don't want that one grade".

I keep with the G, VG, etc method. Numbers don't really mean much to me at all unless we are talking about graded MS/PR coins. Price difference between a 63 and a 64 is crazy sometimes (I can't tell the difference most of the time).

To me, Keep It Simple Stupid is the best way