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RPT
I am beginner collector just started my collection in Dec 2007. I have completed 75% of the total 12th series of Malaysia banknotes from 1967 to 2008. I am also filling up fast on some super rare 1953-61 Malaya British Borneo banknotes. Working my way up 1941 KGVI and 1930s KGV notes and also very rare Sarawak banknotes.

Anyone who is collecting in these fields please shade some lights and fill me in on what to avoid especially how to identify the forgery notes.

Part of my collection: www.banknotebank.com/?collection=RPT


thedeadpoint
RPT's link


Cool looking notes, RPT. I can't help you with your question but I bet someone here can. Welcome, to coinpeople!
NumisMattic2200
Very cool notes, I have to say bthumbsup.gif
De Orc
Great looking notes bthumbsup.gif
kelly.1
QUOTE(RPT @ Apr 5 2008, 10:55 PM) *
I am beginner collector just started my collection in Dec 2007. I have completed 75% of the total 12th series of Malaysia banknotes from 1967 to 2008. I am also filling up fast on some super rare 1953-61 Malaya British Borneo banknotes. Working my way up 1941 KGVI and 1930s KGV notes and also very rare Sarawak banknotes.

Anyone who is collecting in these fields please shade some lights and fill me in on what to avoid especially how to identify the forgery notes.

Part of my collection: www.banknotebank.com/?collection=RPT


Hi RPT
Welcome to CP, I'm also quite new here. Still learning, my mum-in law left me a 50 to 60 pieces Malaya and British Borneo banknotes. Currently do not have the time to sort them out yet. Once sorted, maybe we can swap to complete our sets.

Cheers
kelly
RPT
QUOTE(kelly.1 @ Apr 6 2008, 07:09 PM) *
Hi RPT
Welcome to CP, I'm also quite new here. Still learning, my mum-in law left me a 50 to 60 pieces Malaya and British Borneo banknotes. Currently do not have the time to sort them out yet. Once sorted, maybe we can swap to complete our sets.

Cheers
kelly


Hi Kelly,

Nice to hear someone r also into Malaya & British Borneo collection. In the QEII 1953 series there r $1, $5, $10, $50, $100 possible in normal collection the $1000 and $10000 r a bit out of reach. The 1959 $1 there r 2 printers Thomas DLR and Waterlow & Sons. The waterlow is harder to find in UNC condition hence expensive too. The 1961 $10 buffalo note has 3 different versions small letter prefix "A", Big letter "A" and the most rare is the big "B". I have two catalogues that related to the current market price of these notes. I like to share info and learn more on the history of Malaya, Malaya British Borneo and Malaysia banknote.
see323
Hi RPT,

Welcome to coinpeople. I believe you are from Malaysia since you collect Malaysian notes. Naturally most Singaporean, Bruneian and Malaysian collectors collect Straits Settlements, Sarawak, Malaya and British Borneo. For me, I collected from Straits Settlements ( 1898, 1906, 1914, 1909, 1916, 1924, 1925, 1927, 1929, 1930, 1935, 1940, 1941, 1953, 1959, 1961 ) and all the way up to Singapore notes. I sold my collection last year starting from the Malayan KGVI notes ( 1940, 1941, 1953, 1959, 1961 ). I also sold off a $5 1898 Straits Settlements note two years ago.

I also have a collection of Singapore Post Bills from Chartered Bank (1859-1860) $5, $10, $50 and $100. These are one of the early money using in Singapore ( Malaya ).

At the moment I still have those estremely rare pieces in high grade Straits Settlements notes with me. It is now more for investment than collection since I have move on to world solid number 555555 banknotes.

You will be happy to know that Straits Settlements, Malaya notes are the 10 most sought after collector choice of investment in the world. They are unique and rare. Go for the high grade ones as they appreciate in many folds. Almost all the high grades Straits Settlements notes are already residing in the hands of collectors from Singapore and Malaysia. In the early days, many high grade Straits Settlements come from UK since this part of world ( Singapore, Malaysia and Brunei ) was under the British Crown Colony.

This coming Spink Auction, you will be seeing many of the rare Straits Settlements and Malayan notes coming out from Steven Tan private collection. I believe you know who is Steven Tan, a well known Malaysian long time banknote dealer. He is selling away his vast collection since his children do not keep banknotes and coins.

Here is an example of one of my rare purchase in 1987, I bought a rare original almost uncirculated / uncirculated Straits Settlement 1914 $5 at $2,300 SGD. In 2004, at one of the Spink Auction, it was sold at $11,000 SGD excluding commission. The prices are still climbing for rare high grade ones. Unfortunately, it is beyond the reach for my collection. I have since focus on my world solid number 555555 banknotes collection. In 2006, I managed to acquired an extremely rare uncirculated 1953 Malaya and British Borneo QEII solid 555555 from Brazil. There is no known solid numbers in uncirculated condition in collector's collection. This is probably the only piece known so far.

If you can afford, go for the rare ones. It may be your collection at this moment, but will turn into your valuable investment in the future.

Happy collecting ! yahoo.gif




QUOTE(RPT @ Apr 6 2008, 10:25 PM) *
Hi Kelly,

Nice to hear someone r also into Malaya & British Borneo collection. In the QEII 1953 series there r $1, $5, $10, $50, $100 possible in normal collection the $1000 and $10000 r a bit out of reach. The 1959 $1 there r 2 printers Thomas DLR and Waterlow & Sons. The waterlow is harder to find in UNC condition hence expensive too. The 1961 $10 buffalo note has 3 different versions small letter prefix "A", Big letter "A" and the most rare is the big "B". I have two catalogues that related to the current market price of these notes. I like to share info and learn more on the history of Malaya, Malaya British Borneo and Malaysia banknote.
RPT
Hi, Thank you for all the tips u have given. I can see that u have very outstanding collection. I do have a few questions, some of the old note has been cleaned and their value reduced greatly after cleaning. What kind of chemical they used to clean? How to identify these cleaned note? I have seem one KGV 1935 $5 which the seller claimed to be AUNC. Closer look the note can only be classified as VFine. part of the note was damage when cleanning.
see323
QUOTE(RPT @ Apr 8 2008, 01:00 AM) *
Hi, Thank you for all the tips u have given. I can see that u have very outstanding collection. I do have a few questions, some of the old note has been cleaned and their value reduced greatly after cleaning. What kind of chemical they used to clean? How to identify these cleaned note? I have seem one KGV 1935 $5 which the seller claimed to be AUNC. Closer look the note can only be classified as VFine. part of the note was damage when cleanning.


A serious banknote collector only goes for original banknotes. When I was collecting in the 1980s, practically all banknotes are in original condition. I have never heard or come across any washed and pressed banknotes in those days. When I revisited my hobby in the 2000s, I realised that there are many good condition notes around. I later realised that the banknotes are professionally washed and pressed. I personally do not keep and sell any of these banknotes since they are in non-original condition. As the demand of these notes goes up, the supply of non-original notes increases. It all depend on what you want. Some collectors may not want to pay a lot for their hobby and may choose to keep non-original ones. I am not sure how these chemicals have an effect on banknotes in the long run. Usually they uses AB solution which were used for restoring stamps. I have heard of the use of Chinese herbs which are odourless. Whatever it is, the value of washed and pressed notes will drop unless it is an extremely rare piece. Go for original ones if you want back your invested money in the long run. Unfortunately, original ones are expensive. I used to have stacks of 1953 QEII Malaya and British Borneo $1 in running numbers ( original uncirculated condition ). I sold them away over the years. I remember buying them at $9 SGD per piece and I sold most of them away at $16 SGD a few months to foreign dealers in a Singapore International Coin Convention. The current price for each of them is around $60 SGD. Two months ago, I sold a running pair in ebay for $110 USD. The price does climbed steadily over the years. Great investment if you are buying them in bundles.
kelly.1
Hi see
I found your post interesting and informative. Wow, didn't know that 1953 QEII Malaya and British Borneo $1 in running numbers ( original uncirculated condition ) is so valuable. I have a stack of about 11 pieces in running numbers, I think my mum-in-law intended to put them inside "ang-pow" but did not give them away.

Also have those quite dirty ones, Malaya 1$ notes in 111111, 222222 and 1234567. Do you think they are of any value?

Thanks in advance.

kelly
see323
Yes, original condition and uncirculated condition is what most serious collectors and investors goes for. Somehow, the world woke up and world collectors love to bring one of these unique QEII Malaya and British Borneo note into their collection so that they can have a exclusive QEII Protrait world banknote collection.

There are a lot of washed and pressed ones sold today.

You have to make sure that those 11 pieces in running numbers are not folded with 1 ( centrefold ) or 2 folds. If there are folds, they will no longer be graded as uncirculated. Most of the time, "Any-Pow" money or red packet have notes folded because the early days red packets are relatively small in size. They have no choice but to fold them and squeeze the money into the red packet.

Yes, I got those 1953 $1 in stacks of 100 pieces, They have all been dispersed over the year to collectors and investors.

As for the Malayan $1 solids, I have to look at them. You may want to send me a scan of them.

QUOTE(kelly.1 @ Apr 9 2008, 08:57 PM) *
Hi see
I found your post interesting and informative. Wow, didn't know that 1953 QEII Malaya and British Borneo $1 in running numbers ( original uncirculated condition ) is so valuable. I have a stack of about 11 pieces in running numbers, I think my mum-in-law intended to put them inside "ang-pow" but did not give them away.

Also have those quite dirty ones, Malaya 1$ notes in 111111, 222222 and 1234567. Do you think they are of any value?

Thanks in advance.

kelly
kelly.1
Hi see
sorry for this late reply. Will take a pic of them and send to you later, busy with work and need to complete the project by end Aug 2008. Many thanks.


regards,
kelly
see323
No problem, take your time. bwink.gif




QUOTE(kelly.1 @ Apr 19 2008, 10:39 PM) *
Hi see
sorry for this late reply. Will take a pic of them and send to you later, busy with work and need to complete the project by end Aug 2008. Many thanks.


regards,
kelly
thelawnet
QUOTE(RPT @ Apr 5 2008, 02:55 PM) *
I am also filling up fast on some super rare 1953-61 Malaya British Borneo banknotes.



Don't think they are rare at all. Logically it shouldn't be. It's just that there is high demand from all the countries where it was used. Plus the British/Queen collection gives it international appeal.

Hence high prices relative to scarcity.
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Apr 28 2008, 01:25 AM) *
Don't think they are rare at all. Logically it shouldn't be. It's just that there is high demand from all the countries where it was used. Plus the British/Queen collection gives it international appeal.

Hence high prices relative to scarcity.


Yes, they ( 1953- 1961 ) are not rare at all but getting more and more difficult to find original uncirculated condition. Only the Straits Settlements series (1898-1935) are rarer especially in high grade condition.
thelawnet
QUOTE(see323 @ Apr 28 2008, 04:36 AM) *
Yes, they ( 1953- 1961 ) are not rare at all but getting more and more difficult to find original uncirculated condition. Only the Straits Settlements series (1898-1935) are rarer especially in high grade condition.


I guess the issue is there are many more collectors than there were in the past.

I buy a lot on ebay, and certain notes are in very high demand. I personally ONLY buy Indonesia money, but I check the past purchases of the other bidders, and they have varied tastes.

Once a note is sold, it is 90% gone forever. Most collections probably won't ever be sold. So essentially that money is gone from availability. Most owners have no financial need to sell their money. So they won't

And with high demand, eventually so much stuff is locked away in private collections, that the notes acquire scarcity and a high price.

BTW, it's fun to note how quickly a collector grows to accept high prices. My first notes were under $1. Now I will pay up to about $150 for a single note - providing that is a fair price for the scarcity of the note.

I'm not really up to spending $500-$1000 on notes yet though.
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Apr 28 2008, 09:32 PM) *
I guess the issue is there are many more collectors than there were in the past.

I buy a lot on ebay, and certain notes are in very high demand. I personally ONLY buy Indonesia money, but I check the past purchases of the other bidders, and they have varied tastes.

Once a note is sold, it is 90% gone forever. Most collections probably won't ever be sold. So essentially that money is gone from availability. Most owners have no financial need to sell their money. So they won't

And with high demand, eventually so much stuff is locked away in private collections, that the notes acquire scarcity and a high price.

BTW, it's fun to note how quickly a collector grows to accept high prices. My first notes were under $1. Now I will pay up to about $150 for a single note - providing that is a fair price for the scarcity of the note.

I'm not really up to spending $500-$1000 on notes yet though.


Collectors usually do not sell their banknotes unless they find a better grade one to replace what he/she have in his collection. I used to upgrade the grade of my collection in the early days when I collect my Straits Settlements and Malayan banknotes. It was a tedious but enjoyable search. In those days, we do not have internet, the acquisition of banknotes are solely with public auctions, dealers and collectors. The effort put into searching for them over the weekend was exciting and tiriing. I always ended up broke each month. Still it is a truly enjoyable time when you see your collection grow and improve in grades.

Over a period of 5 to 10 years, banknotes increases in market value. Understanding the scarcity of certain banknotes will help us to identify and increase our investment gains. On the other hands, you gain much satisfaction when your collection is in your possession.

When I first started, I used to observe what a dealer buy at the convention. Without much knowledge, I bought an uncirculated 1940s Ireland one pounder at $10. After keeping for 17 years, I sold it at $120. The note should be worth more if I list it in ebay but it was sold to an international dealer. I regretted not buying a bundle of it. Still the bottomline is you must know what you are buying.
Scottishmoney
QUOTE(see323 @ Apr 29 2008, 09:53 AM) *
When I first started, I used to observe what a dealer buy at the convention. Without much knowledge, I bought an uncirculated 1940s Ireland one pounder at $10. After keeping for 17 years, I sold it at $120. The note should be worth more if I list it in ebay but it was sold to an international dealer. I regretted not buying a bundle of it. Still the bottomline is you must know what you are buying.



Several years ago I sold my whole Irish collection of banknotes, from 1910's to 1990's to a collector for something like $1000 or similar, I had large size square Pound notes, large denomination Northern Ireland banks etc. I kick myself for ever selling that collection, I had very nice stuff, several early uncirculated or EF notes etc. Now I am collecting Ireland again, and am paying outrageous prices for very nice material. Some of the NI banks have note issues that are very very rare when they are unmarked or defaced by ink marks etc. because of the political situation there.
see323
QUOTE(Scottishmoney @ Apr 29 2008, 10:00 PM) *
Several years ago I sold my whole Irish collection of banknotes, from 1910's to 1990's to a collector for something like $1000 or similar, I had large size square Pound notes, large denomination Northern Ireland banks etc. I kick myself for ever selling that collection, I had very nice stuff, several early uncirculated or EF notes etc. Now I am collecting Ireland again, and am paying outrageous prices for very nice material. Some of the NI banks have note issues that are very very rare when they are unmarked or defaced by ink marks etc. because of the political situation there.


A close friend dealer once told me that we cannot be a collector forever. As a collector for rare and high-end banknotes, it is impossible to keep on buying without selling unless we do not have any financial problem. In 2004, I started selling my early collection notes. I also started buying and selling those high-end banknotes. I find that I am getting a different sort of satisfication. I get satisfaction when I see my buyer is happy with his/her purchase. It is only when you sell, you are able to sustain this banknote hobby in the long-run. I understood this fact and continue with the buying/selling in this hobby since 2004.
thelawnet
QUOTE(Scottishmoney @ Apr 29 2008, 03:00 PM) *
Several years ago I sold my whole Irish collection of banknotes, from 1910's to 1990's to a collector for something like $1000 or similar, I had large size square Pound notes, large denomination Northern Ireland banks etc. I kick myself for ever selling that collection, I had very nice stuff, several early uncirculated or EF notes etc. Now I am collecting Ireland again, and am paying outrageous prices for very nice material. Some of the NI banks have note issues that are very very rare when they are unmarked or defaced by ink marks etc. because of the political situation there.


I doubt the political situation has anything to do with it, it's not like Iraq with bombs falling on banks.

Just lack of supply, excess demand
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Apr 30 2008, 02:21 AM) *
I doubt the political situation has anything to do with it, it's not like Iraq with bombs falling on banks.

Just lack of supply, excess demand



Yes, it is not political tension in Britain but the overall high demand for British and British past and present colonial banknotes. The trend seems to be growing year after year. Somehow collectors likes to collect KGV, KGVI and QEII banknotes. Beware of non-original chemically treated lower grades banknotes sold in higher grades. There are also those who collect for pure investment. This causes the high demand.
Scottishmoney
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Apr 29 2008, 02:21 PM) *
I doubt the political situation has anything to do with it, it's not like Iraq with bombs falling on banks.

Just lack of supply, excess demand



Educate yourself about the situation in Northern Ireland, you know, the fighting that has gone on there for over 360+ years and you will understand. Your comment shows lack of any knowledge of the place. People there have long defaced banknotes that they perceive of as being issued by their enemies, Protestant or Catholic. Some notes, notably National Bank or Bank of Ireland were defaced by Protestants because they were "Catholic" whilst Catholics defaced Ulster and Northern Bank notes because they were perceived of as "Protestant". Because of pen marks and propaganda scribbled on notes, some notes are very rare in undefaced condition.
see323
QUOTE(Scottishmoney @ Apr 30 2008, 09:43 AM) *
Educate yourself about the situation in Northern Ireland, you know, the fighting that has gone on there for over 360+ years and you will understand. Your comment shows lack of any knowledge of the place. People there have long defaced banknotes that they perceive of as being issued by their enemies, Protestant or Catholic. Some notes, notably National Bank or Bank of Ireland were defaced by Protestants because they were "Catholic" whilst Catholics defaced Ulster and Northern Bank notes because they were perceived of as "Protestant". Because of pen marks and propaganda scribbled on notes, some notes are very rare in undefaced condition.


That's a long time. 360+ years. I am sure people must have suffered alot sorry.gif
thelawnet
QUOTE(Scottishmoney @ Apr 30 2008, 02:43 AM) *
Educate yourself about the situation in Northern Ireland, you know, the fighting that has gone on there for over 360+ years and you will understand. Your comment shows lack of any knowledge of the place.


I am British and have been to Ulster. The implication from your post was that it was some kind of permanent warzone. It is certainly not 360 years of consuming civil war.

People resent the common suggestion that it's just a place of bombs and terror.

QUOTE
People there have long defaced banknotes that they perceive of as being issued by their enemies, Protestant or Catholic. Some notes, notably National Bank or Bank of Ireland were defaced by Protestants because they were "Catholic" whilst Catholics defaced Ulster and Northern Bank notes because they were perceived of as "Protestant". Because of pen marks and propaganda scribbled on notes, some notes are very rare in undefaced condition.


Do you have any references as to the extent of political graffiti on banknotes?

I don't know the typical circulation of banknotes, but I would imagine much would circulate within defined areas which would be in most cases religiously homogeneous. Are there specific notes that failed particularly?
see323
My favourite Straits Settlement banknote in my collection.



see323
Here is a larger and clearer view of the note. I cannot imagine how they can print such detailed and beautiful note in 1925. Every banknote is an art piece in the hands of users.


Dave

That is indeed a lovely note See323.

bthumbsup.gif
MADISON
QUOTE(see323 @ May 6 2008, 06:26 AM) *
Here is a larger and clearer view of the note. I cannot imagine how they can print such detailed and beautiful note in 1925. Every banknote is an art piece in the hands of users.




Very nice notes indeed Derrick. Wish I have one..!!
Madison/Mark clapping.gif clapping.gif
see323
QUOTE(MADISON @ May 7 2008, 11:02 AM) *
Very nice notes indeed Derrick. Wish I have one..!!
Madison/Mark clapping.gif clapping.gif


Mark, You should be able to get one this year in the coming Spink Auction, Singapore. bhyper.gif
see323
A close-up on the stalking Malayan Tiger, Water Buffalo in the padi field with a farm boy and many typical coconut trees as background scene in most of tropical countries around S.E. Asia. And also the multi races with different languages printed on the banknote to cater to various cultures and races namely Chinese, Malay, Indian and European and not forgetting the Eurasians.



MADISON
[quote name='see323' date='May 6 2008, 10:47 PM' post='384084']
A close-up on the stalking Malayan Tiger, Water Buffalo in the padi field with a farm boy and many typical coconut trees as background scene in most of tropical countries around S.E. Asia. And also the multi races with different languages printed on the banknote to cater to various cultures and races namely Chinese, Malay, Indian and European and not forgetting the Eurasians.
Hi again
Very nicely done. Make me envy......beautiful picture...
Madison/Mark
thelawnet
QUOTE(see323 @ May 7 2008, 06:34 AM) *
Mark, You should be able to get one this year in the coming Spink Auction, Singapore. bhyper.gif


Last one sold for S$4200 (four times estimate), and only VF!

http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...2&saletype=
MADISON
QUOTE(thelawnet @ May 8 2008, 02:54 AM) *
Last one sold for S$4200 (four times estimate), and only VF!

http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...2&saletype=

thanks!! it is a bite too rich for me.....anyway it is nice all around.
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ May 8 2008, 05:54 PM) *
Last one sold for S$4200 (four times estimate), and only VF!

http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...2&saletype=


Yes, they are expensive,rare and highly collectiable especially the high grade ones. And for this series, not many are in high grade. I only know of three pieces in the highest grades. Uncirculated. Mine is one of the three pieces. There is a countmark on the top edge but the note is uncirculated and in original condition. Most pieces are in VF or VF+. You will never lose out especially when you invest in those high grades ones. The market prices increases many folds as the years goes by. Unfortunately, the truth is that such notes usually selling very much higher than the market price. Unfortunate for buyers but fortunate for sellers.

The Spink Auction below should see some high quality Straits Settlements pieces from Steven Tan for sales. That's what I was told.
8014 Banknotes of South East Asia Singapore 05 Jul 2008 10:00
kelly.1
Hi see
Nice piece of note. Thanks for sharing.
thelawnet
QUOTE(see323 @ May 9 2008, 05:20 AM) *
Yes, they are expensive,rare and highly collectiable especially the high grade ones. And for this series, not many are in high grade. I only know of three pieces in the highest grades. Uncirculated. Mine is one of the three pieces. There is a countmark on the top edge but the note is uncirculated and in original condition. Most pieces are in VF or VF+. You will never lose out especially when you invest in those high grades ones. The market prices increases many folds as the years goes by. Unfortunately, the truth is that such notes usually selling very much higher than the market price. Unfortunate for buyers but fortunate for sellers.


It does depend on the country of issue. Some rare notes do not sell, but anything from Singapore, Malaya, etc., seems to sell very well.

QUOTE
The Spink Auction below should see some high quality Straits Settlements pieces from Steven Tan for sales. That's what I was told.
8014 Banknotes of South East Asia Singapore 05 Jul 2008 10:00


Of course Singapore is probably not the best place to buy South East Asian money, if you want to buy at a low price.

Here's a sale in USA of Indonesian money in 2005:

http://www.stacksarchive.com/viewcat.php?a...;headinglevel=3

A set of Irian Barat 5rp, 10rp, and 100rp (all 3 notes in one lot) sold for $75, and a set of 4 * 100rp notes in condition from F+ to UNC sold for only $60.

The previous year in Singapore, a note in only F+ condition sold for more money - $70

http://mavininternational.com/auction0411/CAT0801.HTM

The 100rp currently fetches $500 and up on ebay in UNC condition.

If you can buy notes away from the home market you may find less collector interest and hopefully a lower price.
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ May 10 2008, 06:56 AM) *
It does depend on the country of issue. Some rare notes do not sell, but anything from Singapore, Malaya, etc., seems to sell very well.



Of course Singapore is probably not the best place to buy South East Asian money, if you want to buy at a low price.

Here's a sale in USA of Indonesian money in 2005:

http://www.stacksarchive.com/viewcat.php?a...;headinglevel=3

A set of Irian Barat 5rp, 10rp, and 100rp (all 3 notes in one lot) sold for $75, and a set of 4 * 100rp notes in condition from F+ to UNC sold for only $60.

The previous year in Singapore, a note in only F+ condition sold for more money - $70

http://mavininternational.com/auction0411/CAT0801.HTM

The 100rp currently fetches $500 and up on ebay in UNC condition.

If you can buy notes away from the home market you may find less collector interest and hopefully a lower price.



Yes, I fully agree on your logic on pricing. Once in a while, we find some good Straits Settlements stuff located in Down Under auctions and pricing is definitely very much cheaper than what is offered at home. Most of the really good Straits Settlements banknotes are found in Singapore and Malaysia since as early as 1980s, these high quality notes found their way to this part of the world from UK. bthumbsup.gif
RPT
Hi,

I know this is kind of out of topic but I just need your comments on this world class super rare note (72 pcs recorded estimated 100 pcs still exist). The last one recorded on spink 2005 Auction in the collection of W.H.Lu. HK$140,000.00 (US$20,000) in EF condition. This is an UNC note from ebay which has at least 50 places printing different but with a near matching serial number from the recorded series. Is this a high grade reprint (counterfeit) or long lost brother of the 1951 RPC RMB queen the "Yurts and Camel".
Thanks

thelawnet
QUOTE(see323 @ May 9 2008, 05:20 AM) *
Yes, they are expensive,rare and highly collectiable especially the high grade ones. And for this series, not many are in high grade. I only know of three pieces in the highest grades. Uncirculated. Mine is one of the three pieces. There is a countmark on the top edge but the note is uncirculated and in original condition. Most pieces are in VF or VF+. You will never lose out especially when you invest in those high grades ones. The market prices increases many folds as the years goes by. Unfortunately, the truth is that such notes usually selling very much higher than the market price. Unfortunate for buyers but fortunate for sellers.

The Spink Auction below should see some high quality Straits Settlements pieces from Steven Tan for sales. That's what I was told.
8014 Banknotes of South East Asia Singapore 05 Jul 2008 10:00


The catalogue is available.

http://www.spink.com/auctions/pdf/8014pages.pdf

There are a lot of Straits, Sarawak, Malaya and Borneo notes.

Including an XF one of this note.

The prices are huge......

It makes me wonder about investment notes.

The Netherlands Indies notes are also highly priced, but Indonesia notes are still cheap. I am hoping improving economics will make my collection more valuable. You can still buy extremely rare (five pieces in existence) notes for around US$3,000. Merely scarce notes are only priced at $100 or so.

How much did you pay for your notes originally see323, and when did you buy them?
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Jun 12 2008, 03:37 AM) *
The catalogue is available.

http://www.spink.com/auctions/pdf/8014pages.pdf

There are a lot of Straits, Sarawak, Malaya and Borneo notes.

Including an XF one of this note.

The prices are huge......

It makes me wonder about investment notes.

The Netherlands Indies notes are also highly priced, but Indonesia notes are still cheap. I am hoping improving economics will make my collection more valuable. You can still buy extremely rare (five pieces in existence) notes for around US$3,000. Merely scarce notes are only priced at $100 or so.

How much did you pay for your notes originally see323, and when did you buy them?


Yes, I went through the SS notes in Spink catalogue for the coming July. Steven Tan and Patrick Tan have place all their early collection for sales in Spink. I am surprised that none of their collection have a grade close to my SS 1925 $5. Mine is an uncirculated with a count mark on the top margin. We can also consider it as AU/UNC. This will be a truly good piece for those who wanted the best and the highest grade SS collection. There is one SS 1925 $10 with serial number 94988 in good EF in the Spink Auction. Originally in my collection, I sold it off in 2006 as I need money to purchase another SS 1906 $1 Pink in uncirculated condition. The SS 1925 $10 must have landed in Patrick Tan's collection. This piece is extraordinary because you can see the true patterned embozzing on the surface. The note still maintain the bright purple colour. Very striking in appearance. The note should have two pinhones on the top left corner. I don't remember seeing a description in Spink that says pinholes. It may have been filled up. The note is also famous because it first appeared in an early printed poster under Ben's collection. From what I understood, during the 1980s, Ben, a dealer, borrowed some of the best grades SS notes from collectors for the poster printing. It become famous as many collectors have purchase this poster. In fact, all of these top grade SS notes are found only in collector's hands in Singapore and Malaysia.

The super rare notes in the Spink Auction are the 1940 KGVI $1 and $5. There are not many around. If you have read the historical fact, these notes were printed for circulation but the ship that carries them sunk in the sea. This was during WWII. Most of these notes are in very poor condition as they may have been savage by fishermen. Even the poor condition are selling at record prices. The pair from Steven Tan may have been collected from other sources as they are in really nice condition and not from the sunken ship. If you have a lot of money, you can go for these SS/Malaya super rare notes. These are historical notes and SS notes are one of the top ten most expensive notes in the world.

I started collecting them in 1986 as a collection. Even the early days, the high grades ones were also not easy to come by but consider cheap in today market prices. The prices have all climb very high over the years. As I was not able to complete every note in my high grade SS collection, and they are now beyond my means, I have to take them as investment notes. In this Spink Auction, there are quite a few of those Singapore early private issued banknotes ( before Straits Settlements ). Most of them represent one and only piece rarity. In fact, some of the notes have been offered to me many years ago. A number of them comes from Malaysia Dr. Chan collection which were auctioned off in an early Spink Auction. Before these early private issued notes and SS notes were auctioned off, he published a hard-cover book containing all his impressive collection. ( Note : From my observation, he does not have a nicer condition SS 1925 - 1930 $5 than my piece, something to be happy about ..hee hee..since I am considered very much a small fly among those big time collectors ).

I find that even though early privately issued banknotes do have a stake in Singapore,Malaysia and Brunei history but compared to the Straits Settlement banknotes ( first printed in 1898 ), they lost out to SS notes. Straits Settlement banknotes are legal tender and printed by the governing Colonial British government. Collectors are more comfortable collecting them. There are not many collectors willing to lay huge amount money on these privately issued banknotes. In fact, it was quite difficult to sell them earlier. The demand was not too good. I am not sure how these privately issued banknotes do in this coming Spink Auction. We have to wait and see.

The early Indonesian notes should be a good investment if there are not too many of them around. Collect them when they are still cheap. If they are really rare or scarce, they should rise in value over the years.

Here is the famous note that once sat in my SS collection for many years.


thelawnet
QUOTE(see323 @ Jun 19 2008, 12:52 AM) *
The early Indonesian notes should be a good investment if there are not too many of them around. Collect them when they are still cheap. If they are really rare or scarce, they should rise in value over the years.


It is hard to find info on scarceness.

I just received an invoice for $3105 from HR Harmer for unissued Essay Specimens that I purchased in their sale. They are not the most attractive of issues, but are quite historic, because they would have been issued by Indonesia upon independence except that the peace conference with The Netherlands in 1949 brokered that De Javasche Bank would remain as the central bank.

I went to look at the Indonesian notes in the London Spink auction (I am not sure why they were not consigned to Singapore). They had a beautiful unissued specimen, the estimate was only £200-£300. I was prepared to go to £400-£450.

This is the face:



It is a large size note with a nice unique Wayang scene on the reverse. It had undeclared surface damage which I saw on inspection. It was also miscatalogued as the less desirable (issued) 1000 rupiah , so I did not raise it with them, as I was hoping that the misdescription would keep the price down.

Unfortunately it went for £800 (=£960 with premium), which wasn't a price I was willing to go to, mainly because I don't have the context to justify that price - previous auction sales, or data on the number of notes that survive (the note was numbered 'Specimen 25', but exactly how many survive is unclear).

I noticed that the preceding Indian notes were attracting high bids (several thousands pounds) from Indian bidders, I believe that in a developing country like Indonesia, demand will only increase in the future.

What sort of prices were you paying in the mid 80s? I.e for something that is now $2000, what was the price then?
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Jun 20 2008, 02:20 AM) *
I noticed that the preceding Indian notes were attracting high bids (several thousands pounds) from Indian bidders, I believe that in a developing country like Indonesia, demand will only increase in the future.

What sort of prices were you paying in the mid 80s? I.e for something that is now $2000, what was the price then?


If you are referring to SS / Malaya notes, a rough estimate in the 80s should be around $300 or less. It all depend on scarcity. There are some scarce note which was once at a very high price such as the Malaya 1940 $10 ( purple ). A large bundle of them were found in very nice condition, the market price dropped. It will take some time to go back to it's peak price in the early days. Nice condition are sought after by collectors.

Early Singaporean collectors also collect Indonesia banknotes ( especially Dutch Indies ) and Malaysian Agung banknotes but I am not one of typical collectors. I started seriously collecting when I was 21-22 years old. Most of the collectors I met were retired old men. In those days, you will only see old men who were avid collectors. They usually collect notes around the region ( South East Asia + China). Almost every Sat, we would gather at a popular dealer shop to chit chat ( discussion ) and sharing of information on coins and banknotes. There was always nice notes and coins available for sales.

Were you the one who won the specimen notes book from HRHammer earlier. I think it went for 5k USD. It's nice to keep and invest in printer specimen ( those with the printer chop ). They are great investment. Without the printer chop, it was a miserable investment. I learnt a painful way when I bought them as early as late 1980. I sold them off in 2004 make a big loss. No more specimen notes for me even those with printer chops.

Indian notes are currently in high demand. In the last Mavin Auction, there were a lot of nice early Indian notes which fetches a lot of money. In fact, I noticed people are aware that early Indian notes are becoming very popular. The demand should be from India as they get richer. It is the same for China.
thelawnet
QUOTE(see323 @ Jun 19 2008, 11:17 PM) *
Were you the one who won the specimen notes book from HRHammer earlier. I think it went for 5k USD. It's nice to keep and invest in printer specimen ( those with the printer chop ). They are great investment. Without the printer chop, it was a miserable investment. I learnt a painful way when I bought them as early as late 1980. I sold them off in 2004 make a big loss. No more specimen notes for me even those with printer chops.


Hmm?

I bought some 1948 and 1949 essay specimens:




Not sure what you mean about printer chops?
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Jun 20 2008, 08:43 AM) *
Hmm?

Not sure what you mean about printer chops?


That's oval shape printer chop on the specimen note below ( the red chops appear on the upper left and lower right corner ). In this note, I believe the printer is Thomas De La Rue ( TDLR ).

thelawnet
QUOTE(see323 @ Jun 20 2008, 03:27 AM) *
That's oval shape printer chop on the specimen note below ( the red chops appear on the upper left and lower right corner ). In this note, I believe the printer is Thomas De La Rue ( TDLR ).


Yeah.

There are some notes on ebay at the moment:

http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?s...;sass=yacobe123




With the overprint 'SPECIMEN', yet to me they just look like issued notes that someone has stamped 'SPECIMEN' over.

The one sold at SPINK yesterday

http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...8&saletype=

had serial
5A00000
25A00000

which is as you'd expect, zero serial number, first letter prefix; the ones on ebay have normal serial numbers - the 100 in particular has a three-letter serial, which I believe occurred later, after they'd worked through A-Z and AA-ZZ.

Not one of the notes has a zero or special serial (though the 1958, 1968, 1975, 1977, 1982, 1992, notes; i.e. those other than the TDLR notes, have 'X' prefixes, i.e. replacement note).

Are they all just faked?

I can't see how they have any collector's appeal, as against those with zero serials.
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Jun 20 2008, 06:40 PM) *
The one sold at SPINK yesterday

http://www.spink.com/asp/fullCatalogue.asp...8&saletype=

had serial
5A00000
25A00000

which is as you'd expect, zero serial number, first letter prefix; the ones on ebay have normal serial numbers - the 100 in particular has a three-letter serial, which I believe occurred later, after they'd worked through A-Z and AA-ZZ.

Not one of the notes has a zero or special serial (though the 1958, 1968, 1975, 1977, 1982, 1992, notes; i.e. those other than the TDLR notes, have 'X' prefixes, i.e. replacement note).

Are they all just faked?

I can't see how they have any collector's appeal, as against those with zero serials.


From what I understood, the whole purpose of producing specimen notes were to be given to all countries in the world for references. They usually have normal serial number with a specimen word printed across the note. Printer specimen are different as in the case of TDLR oval or sometimes round shape chop. I am not too sure about the other printer such as American Banknotes printer. Printer specimen are kept by printer for their own references. There are also colour trials with printer chop which are kept by printer. I believe these printer specimen were brought by their staff to collectors. Sometimes, it could be the printer company no longer exists or bought over by another printer company.

Just look at Cuba specimen. There are so many of them. It is almost like mass production. It is hard to tell whether they are faked ones as there are insufficient information both on mintage and type for these specimen notes including printer specimen. But one thing for sure, there are not as many printer specimen available for sales as compared to those normal specimen notes.

Another group of specimen is the collector's specimen. They are specially printed for collectors. I bought four books of Singapore collectors specimen and I make losses even though I bought them at issued prices. After 18 years, when I sold them away, i still make losses. It is a lesson I learnt. I never touches specimen notes again. In any case, most collectors do not collect specimen notes. It is the circulation notes that are the prize ones. Every serial number in the circulation note is accountable and traceable. That is why I focus on circulation notes with solid number. After all, one of the criteria of collecting banknotes is rarity. Mintage is an important factor in determining rarity and scarcity.

Some love to keep specimen notes. In my opinion, my advice is to avoid them totally. One fine day, your $10,000 specimen note which you fought very hard during a reputable international auction, may only worth $10. Time is money. You probably have kept it for 20 years. So what happen ? After 20 years, someone quietly channel out 100,000 pieces of similar specimen note to various dealers, auction houses, internet auction. When you realised it, it has already flooded the market. It is now worth $10 and even then nobody want it for their collection. Avoid specimen notes.
thelawnet
QUOTE(see323 @ Jun 20 2008, 03:11 PM) *
Some love to keep specimen notes. In my opinion, my advice is to avoid them totally. One fine day, your $10,000 specimen note which you fought very hard during a reputable international auction, may only worth $10. Time is money. You probably have kept it for 20 years. So what happen ? After 20 years, someone quietly channel out 100,000 pieces of similar specimen note to various dealers, auction houses, internet auction. When you realised it, it has already flooded the market. It is now worth $10 and even then nobody want it for their collection. Avoid specimen notes.


Yeah I do worry about this.

The 1948/1949 essay specimens I bought sold for $400, but at the previous auction they sold for $750, perhaps because nobody had seen them before.

Who knows how many more exist?

That said, the TDLR numbered specimens as above, are slightly more appealing because they say "SPECIMEN No. 16", and there are clearly a limited number in existence, because they are individually numbered.
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Jun 20 2008, 11:11 PM) *
Yeah I do worry about this.

The 1948/1949 essay specimens I bought sold for $400, but at the previous auction they sold for $750, perhaps because nobody had seen them before.

Who knows how many more exist?

That said, the TDLR numbered specimens as above, are slightly more appealing because they say "SPECIMEN No. 16", and there are clearly a limited number in existence, because they are individually numbered.


I have seen and come across these "appealing" individually numbered specimen notes ( quite a few around ). As long as there are no information on their mintage provided to the general public, there is no guarantee and there is no or low demand. Moreover, they are not legal tender. They are merely representation of the circulation note. We do not want to take such risk and end up having a worthless collection. Think
see323
QUOTE(thelawnet @ Jun 20 2008, 11:11 PM) *
Yeah I do worry about this.

The 1948/1949 essay specimens I bought sold for $400, but at the previous auction they sold for $750, perhaps because nobody had seen them before.

Who knows how many more exist?

That said, the TDLR numbered specimens as above, are slightly more appealing because they say "SPECIMEN No. 16", and there are clearly a limited number in existence, because they are individually numbered.


I have seen and come across these "appealing" individually numbered specimen notes ( quite a few around ). As long as there is no information on their mintage provided to the general public, there is no guarantee and there is no or low demand. Moreover, they are not legal tender. They are merely representation of the circulation note. We do not want to take such risk and end up having a worthless collection. Think twice.
Owen Linzmayer
I'm interested in buying one of the following for my personal collection. Can anyone here help me out?

50 ringgit (US$14.95), 2007. 20,000 special sets issued December 26, 2007 for RM60, and at face w/o packaging starting January 30, 2008. Green-blue. Portrait of the first king, Tuanku Abdul Rahman ibni Tuanku Muhammad at right, national flower hibiscus at center, songket weaving patterns in background and edges, signature (Tan Sri Dr. Zeti Akhtar Aziz, GABENOR). Malaysia’s first prime minister, Tunku Abdul Rahman Putra Al-Haj declaring independence, oil palm trees, microbiology technology, and 50th anniversary logo on back (logo will appear only on first 50 million notes). Security features include watermark portrait and 50 as electrotype watermark, fluorescent windowed security thread with repeating BNM RM50 (also as microtext), songket design as registration device, 50 as latent image, holographic stripe with 50 and hibiscus flower. Printer: Gieseke & Devrient (w/o imprint). 145 x 69 mm.

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