http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=120211672134

Please report this to eBay! You can use this link to do so:

Report an eBay listing violation

It takes you to another thread on this forum which contains the link to eBay's site.

Done.

Done as requested!

Clive.

I truely believe this is a different "fake". But I know I have read that rare book...sewn into the cover" before. Must have been a hell of a book.....

Done.

Reported

Done
I think this is not last time for such fake

The reverse die is clearly not the same but the obverse is not certain.

RWJ

Item is reported as an obvious fake.

And yet despite all of our valiant efforts, it remains as an active listing. Disgusting.

The picture of the edge is the same as the one on the web site referred to in the older auction ... mintmaster Apollon Grasgov. The other coin had Felix Zaleman on the edge, if that was indeed a true picture of the "coin" in question.

Of course, neither mintmaster is correct for 1908 (should be Elikum Babayants).

Reported.....for whatever good it will do

"SOLD "AS IS" and "ALL SALES ARE FINAL, NO REFUND OR EXCHANGE." I wonder why?

The seller of the 1908 "coin" previously offered on e-bay, lucianoalan, had given a link to:

http://www.imperialrussia.com/goldcoins/19...0goldruble.html

to show another known "1908 10 roubles" in existence. That is where the story of the rare book etc... comes from and all the photos match the current listing.
Notice who the new e-bay seller is.

Now please tell me that these two sellers do not know each other and are completely innocent of all wrongdoing.

Thanks.......I thought I was going nuts with the book story....

I wrote to the seller and asked if I could get free delivery....told me t read the terms. I also told him to say hi to our previous seller and famous COIN PEOPLE guest....BUT NO COMMENT ON THAT///

man-o-man.... this again.... looks like our buddy lucianoalan's "friend" wants to sell the other one he made...

Still active.

And I am trying to list authentic stuff and so far ebay is constipated this morning. Bungholes.

Yep ... if you go the "Me" page, that web site is prominently advertised. It's him/them, alright.

=========================
"WHOIS" lookup for "imperialrussia.com":
=========================

Whois Server Version 2.0

Domain names in the .com and .net domains can now be registered
with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net
for detailed information.

Domain Name: IMPERIALRUSSIA.COM
Registrar: NETWORK SOLUTIONS, LLC.
Whois Server: whois.networksolutions.com
Referral URL: http://www.networksolutions.com
Name Server: NS23.WORLDNIC.COM
Name Server: NS24.WORLDNIC.COM
Status: clientTransferProhibited
Updated Date: 08-may-2007
Creation Date: 25-jun-2006
Expiration Date: 25-jun-2009

>>> Last update of whois database: Sun, 20 Jan 2008 15:00:28 UTC <<<

NOTICE: The expiration date displayed in this record is the date the
registrar's sponsorship of the domain name registration in the registry is
currently set to expire. This date does not necessarily reflect the expiration
date of the domain name registrant's agreement with the sponsoring
registrar. Users may consult the sponsoring registrar's Whois database to
view the registrar's reported date of ex
TERMS OF USE: You are not authorized to access or query our Whois
database through the use of electronic processes that are high-volume and
automated except as reasonably necessary to register domain names or
modify existing registrations; the Data in VeriSign Global Registry
Services' ("VeriSign") Whois database is provided by VeriSign for
information purposes only, and to assist persons in obtaining information
about or related to a domain name registration record. VeriSign does not
guarantee its accuracy. By submitting a Whois query, you agree to abide
by the following terms of use: You agree that you may use this Data only
for lawful purposes and that under no circumstances will you use this Data
to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support the transmission of mass
unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations via e-mail, telephone,
or facsimile; or (2) enable high volume, automated, electronic processes
that apply to VeriSign (orrepackaging, dissemination or other use of this Data is expressly
prohibited without the prior written consent of VeriSign. You agree not to
use electronic processes that are automated and high-volume to access or
query the Whois database except as reasonably necessary to register
domain names or modify existing registrations. VeriSign reserves the right
to restrict your access to the Whois database in its sole discretion to ensure
operational stability. VeriSign may restrict or terminate your access to the
Whois database for failure to abide by these terms of use. VeriSign
reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .EDU domains and
Registrars.NOTICE AND TERMS OF USE: You are not authorized to access or query our WHOIS
database through the use of high-volume, automated, electronic processes. The
Data in Network Solutions' WHOIS database is provided by Network Solutions for information
purposes only, and to assist persons in obtaining information about or related
to a domain name registration record. Network Solutions does not guarantee its accuracy.
By submitting a WHOIS query, you agree to abide by the following terms of use:
You agree that you may use this Data only for lawful purposes and that under no
circumstances will you use this Data to: (1) allow, enable, or otherwise support
the transmission of mass unsolicited, commercial advertising or solicitations
via e-mail, telephone, or facsimile; or (2) enable high volume, automated,
electronic processes that apply to Network Solutions (or its computer systems). The
compilation, repackaging, dissemination or other use of this Data is expressly
prohibited without the prior written consent of Network Solutions. You agree not to use
high-volume, automated, electronic processes to access or query the WHOIS
database. Network Solutions reserves the right to terminate your access to the WHOIS
database in its sole discretion, including without limitation, for excessive
querying of the WHOIS database or for failure to otherwise abide by this poNetwork Solutions reserves the right to modify these terms at any time.

Get a FREE domain name registration, transfer, or renewal with any annual hosting package
- or just $8.95 with monthly packages.

http://www.networksolutions.com

Visit AboutUs.org for more information about IMPERIALRUSSIA.COM
<a href="http://www.aboutus.org/IMPERIALRUSSIA.COM">AboutUs: IMPERIALRUSSIA.COM </a>




Registrant:
Bard Consulting Co.
ATTN: IMPERIALRUSSIA.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA. 20172-0447


Domain Name: IMPERIALRUSSIA.COM

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Promote your business to millions of viewers for only $1 a month
Learn how you can get an Enhanced Business Listing here for your domain name.
Learn more at http://www.NetworkSolutions.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Administrative Contact, Technical Contact:
Bard Consulting Co. uv7xv8ek7y9@networksolutionsprivateregistration.com
ATTN: IMPERIALRUSSIA.COM
c/o Network Solutions
P.O. Box 447
Herndon, VA 20172-0447
570-708-8780


Record expires on 25-Jun-2009.
Record created on 25-Jun-2006.
Database last updated on 20-Jan-2008 10:01:09 EST.

Domain servers in listed order:

NS23.WORLDNIC.COM 205.178.190.12
NS24.WORLDNIC.COM 205.178.189.12

This listing is a Network Solutions Private Registration. Mail
correspondence to this address must be sent via USPS Express Mail™ or
USPS Certified Mail®; all other mail will not be processed. Be sure to
include the registrant's domain name in the address.

So much for reporting it, from several users here. We just WASTED our time.

Hello all,

Let me start by saying that I am by far a 'coin guy'. I've always enjoyed them and certainly keep my eyes peeled for the elusive 'diamond in the rough'. Which, brings me to reply to this thread. I live in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. As far as I am aware, I was the first to post this coin on E-bay. Here's how the TRUE story went.

The coin was posted on a local free website for posting and selling stuff. (this was back in late 2005). I just happened to check the site for latest ads posted and there was an ad for this gold coin. Again, not knowing coins, I thought for $50.00 CDN, I couldn't go wrong buying gold of this size. I arranged to go over to his place to buy the coin. It was him that told me he had bought a box of books at an Auction in Kingston, Ontario. When going through the box, there was an old Russian bible, in rough shape. He found the coin sen in the cover. Is this true? I dunno, but he seemed legit. Much like myself he was a buyer and seller. Anyway, I bought the coin. I was big into selling on e-bay so I tried to search the value of this 1908 10 rouble coin. For abvious reasons, I couldn't find anything. There were similar Roubles going for around 100-150 US. With the US dollar about 30 points greater than the Canuck buck, I decided to post it. Literally, and within the first 10 minutes, I was inindated with e-mails from people. The majority were simply saying it's a fake, but there were 3 that wanted confirmation of certain things on the coin. I had to send more pics to confirm ther coin did say 1908. Now at this time I'm nervous, for 2 reasons.

First - what have I done? Did I just post a coin on e-bay with a starting bid of 50.00 and no reserve that could literally be a 'one of a kind'? Did I finally find my 'diamond in the rough' and let it slip away?

Secondly - I was afraid that I was going to be dubbed as violating some e-bay policy by posting a counterfeit coin?

So, I did two things. I first brought the coin to a guy I know who is a jeweler. He confirmed it was in fact gold. I then brought it to a local coin dealer. Before I showed him, I said 'hey...I have a 1908 gold rouble' how much is it worth? Before I could get the question out, he said I didn't because they didn't strike any in 1908. I told him the story of the bible. He proposed this to me as an explanation. A) It's a counterfeit...but to his point, why would anyone counterfeit a coin for a year when none were made? Logically, it made sense to me. He then said to picture the working conditions in Russia in the early 1900's. Lighting was poor as were conditions. He suggested that maybe it was 1903 and they were setting up the die to strike the coin. With poor lighting, the guy grabs the 8 instead of the 3. The coin gets struck and only then realize their mistake. To avoid getting into trouble, the guy hides it in his bible. Again, it sounded possible.

Now, I don't know how much of what I was told was truth, but what I've told you is the 100% truth of the way it happened. Right after talking to the coin guy, I added this info as a possible reason for the coin being a 1908. In the end, I sold it to the highest bidder for $454.00 US. Good profit for paying only $50.00. The felow I sold it to has had it posted with virtually the same details I gave him and I gave you here today.

Anyway, I just happened across this blog and thought I would throw it out there. So is the general concensus that this is for certain 100% bogus?

Thanks for listening

Counterfeiters are not always careful and sometimes make careless mistakes.



It sounds highly improbable to me. Dies can be repunched to correct errors and this is a trivial matter.

Stealing gold coins from the Imperial Mint would result in far more serious trouble than a die-punching error.




The coin is not consistent with dies used at the mint. Wherever this thing was made, it was almost certainly in someone's basement and not in the Russian mint.

It is about as real as the unicorn is.

BTW, welcome to coinpeople.

I am guessing that it is probably just gold-plated. Did he weigh the coin? I would be interested to know what it weighs. Also, was it 22K or merely 12K or something else?

As to the rest of the story, it should be obvious to anyone who is serious about collecting that it is a fantasy coin and as such of no interest at all. However, it seems that everyone who sells this is trying to pass it off as a genuine product of the Russian Imperial mint, which it isn't by any stretch of the imagination. Why not put it up on eBay as a souvenir piece or copy? That would be the honest thing to do.

Thanks for the welcome to this site. Very informative.

I dunno if he weighed it. he went off into the back and came back and said it was gold.

(Why not put it up on eBay as a souvenir piece or copy? That would be the honest thing to do.) Just for the record, I put it up on e-bay as honestly as anyone could not knowing it could be a fake.

Just a comment about stealing a coin from the mint. I agree, but maybe there was a harsh penalty for making errors too? Again, you guys are the experts and in fact it makes me happy to know that I didn't have 'the diamond in the rough' and let it slip my hands. Happened once to me already and hate to know it happened twice! Well, I guess I faired well considering it's a dud.
Cheers
John

Please consider that this object exists due to efforts of an individual (unknown), whos intent was to take advantage of, by deceit, collectors (us folks here on this forum, for example). Who knows how many collectors have been swindled by means of this particular object, over the years. The sole purpose of this object is robbery. Selling it as a curio, or whatever, only continues the journey. It should be destroyed. If its gold, melt it. If not, a nice acid bath should improve its appearance, and put an end to this sham. I think there has been enough debate on this object , here on this forum.

Well said.

Acid bath??? We must protect the environment... Did you heard about hammered coins?

I will respectfully disagree.

Firstly, it is possible, and likely that this coin is a counterfeit from early 1900s, made to swindle shop keepers and not collectors. In this case it would not be gold, or low grade gold (e.g. 12K). I have also read somewhere that contraband smugglers would mint fake coins of good gold, as it was easier to avoid customs that way. I believe after 1917 some controbandists even obtained actual dies from what was left of the Russian Imperial mint, and used them to make there own coin.

Second, I would disagree on the point of melting it. There are people who collect forgeries and counterfeits. I'm sure they would be interested. Of course the description of the item should reflect its actual status. And refund should be offered in case of a misunderstanding

Thirdly, people on eBay should not act like gullible children. How much money was spent on those Chinese fake roubles?

Perhaps it could be slabbed as an authentic forgery, and thus not be mistaken for a lowly genuine coin.

Dangerous idea!!!

Send that coin to these guys: http://www.nnccoingrading.com/

They'll slab it as MS-63 Russian 10 Kopeeks. And of course somebody on eBay will immediately snipe it with 4000 US.

that story about not knowing anything about it is complete crap... you are either a liar or just a moron... why would you sell something on e bay and know absolutely nothing about it especially if its "made of gold"?

I think you just got stuffed on it... and now your trying to stuff someone else with it... I will wait to be convinced otherwise.

Some comments:

Point 1. This is probably not a contemporary counterfeit. Forgers normally pick the most common
date and 1908 does not fit that category. It is far more likely that this is an abortive Lebanese piece. The
civil war in that country put an end to the counterfeiting operations and I suspect that this was an issue
which was terminated by the war. It has been reported that the Lebanese counterfeiters used dates that
were either spurious or which had never been put into circulation, as in the case of the British sovereigns.

Prior to 1917 those nations on the gold standard, including Russia, did not charge customs duties on imports
or exports of gold or silver. It is only in recent times that customs problems have arisen in such matters.

It is of course remotely possible that dies or hubs were stolen from the Mint after 1917 but the 1908 in question
was not made with official hubs or dies and this therefore does not apply.

Point 2. Agreed.

Point 3. Agreed.

RWJ

I hope you don't mean that just because fake Chinese roubles are being sold on eBay, that it must be OK to sell coins like this?

As to the "gullible children" bit ... I also agree, but there are lots of sellers out there who still supply ample amounts of "candy" in the hopes that just one gullible child will go for it.

Of course not, 2 wrongs do not make a right. I'm just much more dismayed by sellers who will peddle manufactured fakes in large quantities, than these guys who seem to have stumbled over some old fantasy coin.

As far as the "gullible" remark, I do not mean to offend those who make mistakes and end up with fake coins. I am making those mistakes quite often. But when you see a coin that was never listed in any catalog offered on eBay for a few hundred dollars without any certification of authenticity - what could you be thinking?

And the Chinese fakes are even worse, they look pretty good, but it should make you wander, when 5 sellers with reputation between 0 and 3, offer identical looking coins at the same time.

Good business practice is paramount but we should not forget "Caveat Emptor"!

alexbq2, I apologize if my original post sounded harsh ... I actually got confused as to whom I was answering!

I get very frustrated, and even angry, when I hear people who do sell stuff like this try to justify themselves in retrospect. Of course, we are all naive at some point in our numismatic careers. We all make mistakes ... hopefully only once, though. Anyone can pick up a fake coin cheaply and think they have made a great deal, even trying to sell it for what might be an adequate price for the genuine item, not knowing any better. But the honest collector or dealer will soon realize the mistake and not try to find 1,000 explanations afterwards for why it must be "all right" to peddle wares such as this 1908 piece.


Exactly ... this is my point. If I think someone must be pretty stupid to buy an item such as this, then what conclusion should I reach concerning the seller's intelligence and/or motivation?


Well said!

Please allow me to retort.
I came onto this blog to honestly explain the circumstances of the situation and maybe bring clarity regarding this coin. I opened my Epistle on this site stating clearly that I am not a coin guy. I then read your comment suggesting that I am a Moran or a liar. I am neither and I cannot believe your audacity to personally attack someone without even knowing them. Like I explained, I put this on auction with the purest of intentions. I did research it somewhat. I didn't find any from 1908 and typically a bell would go off, but this time it didn't. While I had this coin up for auction, and as information presented itself, I immediately added this info to the auction. I sold this giving exactly every piece of information presented me from people much like yourself. In the end, someone bought it even knowing the possibility of being a fake. I sold it honestly, I am honest and I find it offensive that you suggest otherwise. Oh and please, my intelligence was also questioned by Alexbq2. Hopefully he/she will read this as well.

In a nutshell, forums like this are amazing. It helps regular Joe's like me find information and resources that typically are not always easy to find. But if any advice I could pass along to you would be this; don’t put yourself on a pedestal. Don't assume that because someone lacks the knowledge you have regarding coins, that their acumen is any less (or anymore) that yours. Be respectful.

Thanks again for listening.

Cheers
John

Since I was mentioned by name I will reply

First, I did not question your intelligence, I questioned the intelligence of a coin collector who would buy your coin as anything but a piece of novelty.

Second, if you indeed sold the coin with attached doubts of its authenticity as per my earlier comment "the description of the item should reflect its actual status. And refund should be offered in case of a misunderstanding", I see no issue with your sale.

Third, this is a public forum there are no "high pedestals" here, just opinions you can agree or disagree with. (But that's just my opinion )

I thought it might be worthwhile to copy this link into the current thread:

1906 fake 10 rouble gold

Doesn't the obverse look like the same die created it as for the 1908 fake?