http://www.huuto.net/fi/showitem.php3?itemid=67597968

Right... such a rare pattern coin going for so cheap.

- Not

Ridiculously cheap if it were real.

Horribly overpriced if it isn't.

gx, your point in another thread about people buying fakes because they are hoping to buy cheap is true, as can be seen here.

If someone stood on a street corner selling $100 notes for 50 cents each, how many people would buy? Most would know that something is wrong and not buy.

But when a well-known rare type like an Alexander I pattern portrait rouble (not some obscure variety known only to specialists, but an easily identifiable rare type) is going for less than 1% of what a real one is worth, the situation is the same, yet people rush to buy.

Grivna, don't be mistaken - I'm actually do have a complex issue with counterfeits and I always end up going in a loop. Personally though, if copies are available at a "reasonable" price for education purposes, I am more than happy to accept it. For example if you want to share numismatics with young children or friends who especially don't know how to handle coins, I'm sure you would be very cautious about it! I personally find it hard to visulize coins from just mere images and it's always good to have a sample right in your own hands.

However though my other concern is, if the issue of counterfeits get out of hand, not only are you giving the counterfeiters an easier time to produce higher quality coins with the profits they make, it actually hurts numismatics in general as it definately puts a lot of people off especially those who got stung. Of course, I have been stung hard and thinking about it now, it actually makes me think why I didn't bother to seek out infomation beforehand.

It does puzzle me for a while that ebay could easily hire a few professional numis people and give their opinions. Or alternatively, buyers can hire such people to get opinions or get research since forums might not be able to answer them fast enough or give them the infomation they want.

Another day, another fake.....but at least I found coinpeople as a result. This time it was a Paul I 1796 trial rouble, with portrait obverse and cross-with-eagle-in-center reverse. I assumed that at $25 it was a common date when I bid on it, but was able to find an image and discussion on coinpeople showing it to be ultra-rare even as a novodel. In further discussion James Elman (who had had a novodel several years ago) informed me that this piece was a common counterfeit in the USSR selling for $5 or so. Russian? Chinese? Maltese? Who knows and who cares. At this point I'd be happy if it was silver - oherwise it's just another worthless pocket piece.

The coin I got was identical to this one, right down to the pit inside the right pillars on the reverse:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Paul-I-1796-rouble-Rus...ksid=p1638.m118

Very fast, non-returnable delivery. It was cheap and makes a clunky sound when dropped on the table. It's a reasonable match to the novodel, though the artist has taken some liberties with Pavel's hairdo. It's big and will make a nice flipper coin.

EDIT 19/12/2007

Just checked weight - 23.54 grams, a little low to the target of 24g, but close enough to make me think it might be silver - way to high to be brass or copper - lucky me if it is [checked sg at 9.7 - too low for Russian coin silver, but identical to cheap white metal babbitt (lead/antimony) which is VERY likely]. Pocket wear will eventually reveal what's underneath....Diameter of 39mm also checks. The rim is unlettered and shows what look like mould lines from a casting, possibly also some machining lines to clean it up before toning. The dentils are pretty cruddy, similar to gxseries' 1806 shown below.

Here is grivna's link to the real thing, from a post in April of last year. The replica's surfaces have a sandblasted matte look compared to this: http://www.numismat.ru/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi...6&number=11

I've actually got this which looks quite nice in my opinion



Good for illustration purposes.