fake.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewI...em=270187647916

Agreed

As almost any other coin sold by this seller

I looked at this piece and compared it to the 7 illustrations on hand in my database.
The main crowns at the top of both obverse and reverse seem different. The other
problem is the M of KM which seems somewhat badly formed compared to those on
hand.

RWJ

On the fake, the mintmaster initials P. B. angle in toward the eagles tail. I beleive on the geniune coin they should be vertical, and tucked in tighter to the tail of the eagle. Is this the case with any of your database images, RWJ, or is this a true variant?

I just checked all 7 illustrations and for each the mintmaster initials are at the same location
and angle as on the eBay piece.

The problems I have with the M of KM and the crowns could be due to die wear so in all
fairness I cannot declare this a fake. But then I am not certain that it is genuine.

Moreover, a seller from Israel does not inspire great confidence.

RWJ

a quick check on molotok.ru shows a number of what seems to be this same fake.
Here is one from molotok, that is a bit different.. described as mintmaster initials "priama" or straight. I have one like this in my collection. I will dig for it and post a pic.

This is mine, with the straight mintmaster marks.
Would any of you coinpeople with a Bitkin on hand see if this is a listed variant?

Another example here:

I think BKB had a stunning example somewhere as well.

As for the above coin mentioned, I am not too sure if I will agree if it's a fake or not. This isn't something VERY RARE and even in that condition, I wouldn't even bother to pay more than 50USD. I didn't even spend that much on the coin that I've shown...

I have 19 examples of this coin in my database. None have lettering like the ebay piece. Even before comparing images, the letters do not look right at all to me...much too thin.

Steve

At least the Sadagura coin Para 3 Dengi from this seller is ok, but the start price isn't 0.99...

Come on - this one is a normall - but well corroded piece..

I"ve see no reason to call that coin a fake.
Different variant - may be, but NOT A FAKE.


IMHO 100% genuine piece.

Basilio, which coin are you talking about? The 2K is not corroded, so perhaps you mean the Sadagura? That I agree with Banivechi...it looks genuine. The 2K does not.

Steve

Coin is original. There are 2 major variants -- straight PB and slanted PB. But, as I am planning to bid on this one, please continue thinking that it is a fake. :-)

No competition from over here...you're welcome to it

BKB, do you know how common/scarce the two variants are, relative to one another? On molotok.ru, there are no less than 20 of the slanted variety PB 1811 km, and 1 of the straight, listed as of last night. Is that about right?

I bet the coin from eBay is ok. Thin lettering is very common on the evenly corroded coins like on the eBay item.

I do not think that this is correct. I would say between 1 to 3 / 1 to 4 at best (IMXO). Due to the fact that mintages were huge, even at 1 to 10 the coin would still be common.

The 19 images I have don't show this lettering. None of them. Some are corroded others aren't so I wouldn't say it's very common. Personally I don't like it. I didn't like it when I first saw it and I didn't like it after I compared it to others. But...that's all just my opinion, and I may well be wrong. It could be OK. It's still fun to discuss it.

Squirrel...what say you?

Steve

Steve, do your database images include any of the straight type PB? Are they all high grade?

I just think something is fishy with the coin from Israel. Ive looked again at the molotok images of the various 1811 km pb 2 kopeks, and can unfortunately only observe (conclude?) that either: This is a well distributed copy, or a commonly available high grade coin. A few of the coins on molotok look to have the same suspicious corroded look (like fine sandblasting), and same funny toning, as the ebay coin, and the same skinny lettering you have observed. I agree this is not such a precious rarity as to warrant a fake, so i could be having a paranoia attack. It wouldnt be the first..

Good luck to BKB on the auction.. perhaps with coin in hand, we will have an answer. Indeed, fun to discuss!

I have a wide variety of grades, and I'm sure I have a whole lot more images of this coin waiting to be processed (I have a sizeable backlog).

As far as relative scarcity of the types:

I see 2 distinct positions for the PB
I - PB extended 50% out from the tail feathers.
II - PB 'tucked in' with the bottom of the letters flush with the bottom of the tail feathers.

The count is
TYPE I - 17 coins
TYPE II - 2 coins

so a ratio of 8:1 (albeit with limited statistics).
The eBay piece is TYPE I. The Squirrel coin and Molotok example are Type II
Including those we get a ratio of 18:4, or about 4:1, as per BKB.

Steve

The Aalborg coin from the recent sale is here

http://www.hoiland-stamps.dk/default.aspx?...;s=&c1=1001

TYPE I

Steve