I have the 1980 Olympic sets in Silver, Gold and Platinum in their original presentation folders with the certificates and misc. paperwork.

My question is simple:

Do you think it's better to certify them (Gold & Platinum) and have NGC place them in the Multi-Coin Holder or leave them in their original capsules inside the presentation cases?


Thanks!

Rusty

Rusty,

This is so much a matter of personal preference that it is really hard to say what is better. It is always nice to see sets in their original presentation folders.

A word of caution when speaking about silver sets. The capsules are never entirely airtight, and I found that if the case has any paper or exposed cardboard, the coins will tone a lot faster and sometimes so unevenly as to make them somewhat unatractive. But then again, that is a matter of taste.

However, if you plan to sell the sets on E-bay, keep in mind that anything that is slabbed will automatically bring a much higher price simply because it is slabbed, regardless of quality.

I know what you mean...

I like the way the coins would look in the NGC's Multi-Coin Holder. I've seen a few sets in them and they look really nice! But there's something special about these sets sitting in their original capsules and in the original album.

No need to slab these coins. Just waste of money. Original presentation boxes and paperwork are essential and will allow to get maximum for the sets. To sell them on e-bay as is may be a good idea.

WCO

i agree with wco

I tend to agree with you guys.

I'll keep these 2 sets in the original cases but will encapsulate the 1988-1991 Silver, Gold, Platinum and Palladium coins...

it is nice to have them in ngc multiholder, but then if u need you will have to sell the whole lot...

Personally, I do not think that the price for these sets will go up a lot when you'll grade them through NGC. These coins are readily available in Russia both in proof and MS state. I have in my collection couple of 100 Rouble Olympic coins in NGC slabs. Purchased approximately for $400 each. One is PF66 and another PF69. Of course, if you are planning to keep them in your collection I would recommend to grade them.

Out of curiosity, why would say that these coins are readily available in Russia both in proof and MS state?

From my understanding and speaking with fellow collectors in Russia, these coins are not readily available! Silver coins could have been bought from jewelry stores but the gold and platinum coins were barely sold to USSR citizens!

If you figure that the face value alone for the gold and platinum coins are 100 & 150 Roubles respectively and they sold for over face value plus an average worker earned less than 100 Roubles a month... How many people do you think could afford these coins?
My mother, an engineer was earning 120 Roubles a month!

These coins were made for tourists and were sold mostly via mail and at the tourist stores.

I will not argue price with you, since I have no idea what will happened to it...

It is obvious that you are not from Russia and I apologize if the above comes of rude or mean.

Rusty.

Huligan, pardon me if I am terribly mistaken but I think I do remember seeing some Sherbank bank branches selling silver, gold and platinum coins which some were from the Soviet era. And that was back in 2003. Can anyone else confirm that Sherbank do sell such coins???

The only reason why I didn't attempt to buy is simply because I knew I can't bring it out of the country

Anyone who has been to Russia during the good old days of USSR would know that coin collecting was a bourgiouse luxury that was not even legal. You might have gotten away with saving a few kopeks out of circulation, but gold coins were a no no that might get you a free lodging courtesy of the KGB. I had people offer me Nikolais 5 Ruble coins in gold, but never know if they were agents of entrapment or what so I didn't bite. Even during the early days of the Russian Federation in the early 1990's I know of coin collectors that were questioned by the FSB and their coins seized because old rules died hard.

I never saw anything collectible unless it was copper nickel ie 5 Ruble commemorative coins which you could get at the bank for face value, but rarely ever spent. It wasn't until the mid 1990's that coin collecting, and ownership of gold and silver coins were not only tolerated but encourage to obvious enrichment of the GosBank.

Yes they would have sold them in 2003. And yes, you could have brought them out of the country, if you made a nice tip to your friendly customs inspector.

http://www.arcamax.ru/price_au77-95.htm

As you can see you can buy any 100 Rouble Olympic coin in PF for $500 and in MS for $400. The store is in Russia. These coins are easily available now for purchasing. If you think that now people, well at least in Moscow, working for that miserable salary, you are mistaken. There are a lot of people in Russia now who is getting pretty big salaries and I see right now every day in my home town in Penza region Lexus SUV's .

That I can understand.

A couple of years ago in a major coin fair here in Australia, there were like 5 Russians that pretty much hoarded anything that looked to be nice or a great steal. All of them probably spent over a thousand dollars easily Obviously I didn't try to participate any of their wars. I'm guess they are buying them and then reselling them back to the mad Russian market - guess that's where most of the sources of molotok are coming from at the moment.

In a local coin shop that I used to frequent, there was this Russian dad and daughter looking to buy some coins. I was about to go up to them and greet them and this dad asked for a rather pricy Hong Kong gold coin. Mind you, it was probably at least 600USD. He opened the plastic capsule and guess what he did, touched the proof coin with his bare hands The coin owner was obviously furious but he was like "Chill, I'll buy it" and that pretty much cooled down the owner. And then he proceeded to buy another German gold coin as there weren't any decent Russian coins...

Everything can be bought today in Moscow! it all comes down to what you're willing to pay but I still say that these coins are not readily available.

What you see on his site is a price list of sorts. It lists the going rates of these coins in Europe.

If you would take the time and read his FAQ's you'd know that: 1. He doesn't really sell these coins and 2. the prices listed are not "his going rate"

Here's a few examples from his own FAQ:

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5. В.: почему Вы перестали работать с юбилейными монетами СССР/России?
О.: это касается только монет 1965-1995 г.г. Вызвано тем, что сейчас найти монеты "пруф" в удовлетворяющем меня качестве трудно - слишком высокая у меня планка. А предлагать клиентам то, что я считаю дефектными монетами, я не могу.

Q.: Why you did cease to work with the anniversary coins Of USSR/Russia?
A.: This relates only to the coins of 1965-1995. This is because of the fact that now to find the coins in "proof" in the satisfying to me quality is difficult. the profit point is too high for me to deal in them. To offer my clients inferior coins is not something I'm willing to do.

7. В.: у Вас на сайте в ценнике одно, а Вы мне называете цену выше. Что за безобразие?
О.: мой сайт - не интернет-магазин. Ценники, которые представлены на сайте, я стараюсь поддерживать в актуальном состоянии, но это не всегда удается, т.к. не все монеты проходят через меня и я не в курсе всех цен. В любом случае - ценники лишь ориентировка: что дороже, что дешевле, порядок цен.

Q.: On your site you list one price, But you quoted me a different and higher price . Why is that?
A.: my site is not an Internet store. , I try to support the price lists, which are represented on the site. the prices are not always right, since not all coins go through me, I'm not aware of all current market prices. In any event - price lists only for reference.

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Sorry but I'm at work and don't want to sit and perfectly translate the above text.

Rusty.

Please, do not translate for me. I think I know the language just like you, if not even better since I'm russian and living in Russia.
I do not quite understand your point? I said these coins are readily available which means you can buy them. The price, well at least for the gold set, I studied this question a little before I left the US. You can buy the whole set here: http://www.pandaamerica.com/subcategory.as...eg=41&grp=1
The price for the same set in Russia is not going to be much higher (3000-3500) and there is no point for example to slab them for selling them in Russia. Овчинка выделки не стоит.

Maybe I'm confused...

I'm a member of some Russian Coin Forums and everyone tells me that these coins can be found, it's a matter of the price someone is willing to pay.
Are they readily available? The answer is always "No".

I understand that I can get it here from PandaAmerica and from eBay but we're discussing availability in Russia.

As far as my coins are concerned: I will not be selling them back to Russia or anywhere else. The idea of slabbing is to protect these beautiful coins from mis-handling... I've had the plastic capsules fall apart when turning the page of the package they are in to see the reverse side. I don't want to see any damage from anything I nor anyone else just from simply viewing them.

Rusty.

Ok, let's change the terms. They are not readily available but you still can buy them in Russia. Once again, if you are planning to keep them in your collection for a long time my advise to you: "SLAB THEM". It's just much easier to show the coins not worrying about some stupid guy who will drop the proof on the ground. If you want to sell them my advise to you: "SLAB THEM ANYWAY" but keep all certificates and the red box. You can always break the slabs and put them back in plastic capsules.

Excuse me for interjecting here. I have nothing enlightening to say about the availability of these coins in Russia or elsewhere. I would just like to point out that not everyone here is fluent in Russian. So an English translation might be appreciated by at least some of those who struggle to understand Russian text when it is posted here.

i second that

Hey, translations are always appericated. Thanks Rusty.

Firstly you need to know someone at the customs and second your tip to the custom officer would defeat the purpose of taking these coins out of the country. These coins are not that rare and their price reflect ony current price on gold.
There are plenty of them available particularly in MS condition.

Yes, these coins were not available to general public but were available to close circle of collectors. Not sure about tourists.
Soviet govt did allow only a few grams per person to take out of the country, so I would doubt that tourists were able to buy them.

No problem. I'm positive that not everyone here can read Russian.

I'd hate for this thread to become a spitting war between 2 collectors.

Rusty.

I think that the Olympic Gold issues are readily available in US. Platinum issues are allot more scarce than Gold, I'm sure the reason is simply the price of the metal. Both of the above tend to sell for few bucks above spot.

The 1988 - 1991 precious metal commemoratives are allot more scarce with mintages ranging from a high of 25,000 coins per issue for the 50 Rouble gold coins and as low as 6,500 per issue for some of the 25 Rouble Palladium issues. 88-91 coins tend to bring almost double the spot if you can find them.

For example, Let's take a current eBay Platinum coin listing: 1991 150 Rouble Alexander & Napoleon commem The spot for Platinum is $1,271 so the melt of this coin is about half but the asking price is $1,200 This is true with the Palladium coins that sell for 2x+ the melt and the gold coins of both denominations. The intrinsic value is there but there's also a nice collector value as well.



I'm certain that for the 1980 Olympics the precious metal coins were pretty much sold only to the visitors. Here in US and I believe Canada a person could have also bought these coins through Montgomery Wards since they had the distribution rights. This was subscription based.

From my understanding of what was available in Russia, as late as 1988 you could have bought Silver 5 & 10 Rouble coins at some jewelry shops. Gold and Platinum were not available for sale to the general public.

Rusty

Even the original papers that come with the 28 silver coin set mentione that only 100,000 sets were available "for distribution in Eastern European" countries with 300,000 sold in the West! Listings on molotok.ru proves that theory because it appears that all sets available in Russia these days are reexports! Scheme is rather simple - buy here ($350-400 is your regular market price in the USA, up 30% YTD) and sell in Russia for $500-600. And let me tell you my personal experience of living in Central Russia (not Moscow) - these silver, gold and platinum coins WERE big deals and very rare for common soviet people!