The second one is a totally different story. The 1865 has awesome luster, a superb strike (almost proof-like strike as far as the devices go; very high relief with everything struck up), great clashing, and just a great look. I bought it as an MS60 because the reverse has some hairlining due to a cleaning. It was mild enough that this is the very rare time I would deliberately buy a cleaned coin. This coin is beautiful in hand and without the hairlining would grade 63/64 easily. It's tough to get the hairlines to show in the picture. Obviously the cleaning wasn't too harsh, otherwise, I would have passed on the coin. There's a small planchet flaw between the first and second "I" on the reverse that is fairly exaggerated in the photo along with a piece of lint that was on top of the holder in the same spot.
