L I N K

Strange, but the current UBS sale 69, which has just been posted online, has some equally odd entries:

Lot nos. 3281–3283 are for the same coins (1914 and 1915 20 kopecks in about Uncirculated) with an estimated value of 500 Swiss Francs! I do not have the catalogue for this sale, but is it the same in the printed version?

Lot no. 3253 has two silver roubles of Catherine II (1786 and 1793) but shows only part of the obverses. The reverses are not illustrated and the 1793, which has three varieties – all rare to very rare, is not further identified. (The 1793 rouble is the coin on the right in the illustration.)

I do not have a direct link to the Russian section, but UBS auction 69 is at:

http://www.ubs.com/4/auctions/ubs-69/auk69.htm

RWJ

Might be the start of a bubble?

Yes, they are the same! I hadn't noticed these yet ... wonder who sets these prices? The submitting owner can usually set a hidden reserve, but is it normal for the owner to set the estimate for the opening bid as well?


Bob, I am planning to go to Basel sometime before the auction and look at the lots in person -- perhaps as early as next Friday. I will study up in Bitkin and see if I can further identify them. Do you have any additional links to information about these three varieties? Unfortunately, I don't collect this type myself.


They seem to have a glitch in the website software. Here is a link to just the frame for the first lot (#3231) -- afterwards, the arrows can be used to navigate back and forth through the lots:

UBS Auction 69, Russian coins

It looks like part of the URL contains the lot number, so it should be possible to edit the URL directly without clicking the arrows once for each lot.

How'bout this one?

http://www.ubs.com/4/auctions/ubs-69/03288h00.htm

I just do not get it.

The three major varieties for the 1793 silver rouble are as follows:

1) Mintmaster YaA. Rare.

2) Mintmaster AK. Rare.

3) No mintmaster initials on reverse. Very rare.

RWJ

Note: I have all three varieties so will not be bidding but for anyone collecting Catherine II silver roubles by date and mintmaster the variety is important.

Does this look like an overdate to anyone else?

http://www.ubs.com/4/auctions/ubs-69/03269h00.htm

Looks to me like 1836/5 or possibly 1836/4.

1836/4 is a published overdate for the rouble.
RWJ

The estimate does seem outlandish, but maybe it is based on THIS CRAZY EBAY SALE PRICE.

The picture from the auction is now gone, but you can see the coin HERE.

BTW, does anyone else here find the UBS Russian section surprisingly mediocre for a major European auction?

Grivna, I don't think so. People seem to pay crazy prices for toned coins these days.

I think most of the "good stuff" went to Geneva ... also, the last UBS auction in September had some important coins in it such as a family rouble and a 37-1/2 rouble gold coin of 1902.

But look at the upcoming New York Sale of Dmitri Markov and compare it with his catalogues of recent years. The supply of good coins seems to be rapidly drying up. Otherwise, how would you justify having something like this in the auction at all? http://www.ubs.com/4/auctions/ubs-69/03280h00.htm

Dear Grivna,

I completely agree with you that the price for 1924 rouble is way too high. Also, I'd agree that the coin selection (Russian section) on the UBS auction is VERY mediocre. In contrast, coming NYC auctions (Heritage, Stacks, Triton, Markov) will offer much wider variety of better coins.

Well, that price is just breathtaking. I think the buyer will be buried in it for a long, long time to come.

Colorful toning or not, it's still an extremely common coin and it probably always will be. And I wonder if that toning didn't have a little help along the way, because it sure looks odd to me.

I really don't understand the buyer's thinking. This is the Russian coin market, not the Morgan Dollar or moderns market.

I think you're right Bobh. I'm stunned by some of the trash that is showing up in auctions lately. That silvered bronze (yeah, right) 1913 Romanov commemorative is an excellent example. This is the sort of thing I expect to see turn up on Ebay from one of the more disreputable sellers.

I have noticed there seem to be fewer good coins around these days. Maybe much of the good stuff has gone back to Russia.

I agree with you about Markov's upcoming sale. It has some decent stuff in it, but less than last year's offerings. I think a trend is developing here.

True, Oldman, but even so, do you not think that lately there's a lot fewer exciting coins around than there was even 2-3 years ago? That is my impression.

Double post. Please delete.

I absolutely agree. And my theory here is really simple - just think statistics ! First, populaton of the Earth grows. As a result, grows the number of people interested in physics, math, politics and ... coins. But the number of good coins does not grow. Second, we all know that Russian dealers pay huge $$ for good stuff, right? Right...and they will pay more and more because they work on comissions ! 5-10% out of 5,000$ is diferrent from 5-10% out of 10,000$. So, lets pay more to get more. Third, auctions do not bother to look for potential consigners. Why? Because everything sells ! Fourth,...I guess it is enough.

It tells me that your impression is exactly right ! Come over to NYC next week and you will see dozens of dealers from ex-USSR buying everything.

I wouldn't be suprised either. I had a few Russian buyers even wanting to buy my damaged coins so I must imagine situtation is either crazy or desperate. To think that I bought a 1924 ruble 4 years ago in the streets in Moscow for 10USD must be a joke.

What was even worse was that I missed my chance in getting a set of 1839, 1896 commemorative rubles for 500usd each I went for the lower grade Column ruble instead. Sounds like a joke doesn't it.