[sigistenz]

Hi, this 1798AM polushka is countermarked on both sides with crowned letters ES. What could that be? Thank you, Sigi

[gxseries]

Es for espanol, i.e. Spain? Looks like it does have a Spanish crown but I can be wrong.

[Aleksandr45]

For the reference with such sign were not issued.
This private work.

[alexbq2]

Aleksandr45, on Mar 13 2010, 02:53 PM, said:

For the reference with such sign were not issued.
This private work.

Not issued where? Russia or Spain?

[BKB]

Until there is an official document listing this countermark as government issue, it is a private countermark. I doubt anyone can provide any additional info. The most you can hope for is another one of these showing up. But, then there would be two coins with private marks...

[Aleksandr45]

Coin of Russia. But with such brand was not.

[alexbq2]

Aleksandr45, on Mar 13 2010, 09:08 PM, said:

Coin of Russia. But with such brand was not.

The countermark is clearly not Russian. It does look Spanish, and Spain had many colonies at that time. Often colonies reused currency issued in other countries, as they had no mint of their own. Sometimes counterstamp was used for the purpose of legitimizing the currency for local circulation.

I have absolutely no idea about this one. I would post this question to people who are familiar with Spanish or Spanish colonial coinage.

[squirrel]

An interesting question about the countermark, but isnt this coin a little bit undersized for your collection, Sigi?

[one-kuna]

sigistenz, on Mar 13 2010, 01:34 PM, said:

Hi, this 1798AM polushka is countermarked on both sides with crowned letters ES. What could that be? Thank you, Sigi

counterstamping on russian coins still awaiting for its researches

[sigistenz]

squirrel, on Mar 14 2010, 01:38 AM, said:

An interesting question about the countermark, but isnt this coin a little bit undersized for your collection, Sigi?

Yes indeed, Josh, it is not mine but a friend's, who is not familiar with this forum, doesn't speak English either. By the way I think this is the best non-Russian forum for Russian coins. The same question on a German forum has not yielded any answer yet, here we have however quite some opinions. I hope you are doing fine and still finding your way in the mountains of your coins. Sigi

[sigistenz]

alexbq2, on Mar 13 2010, 09:47 PM, said:

The countermark is clearly not Russian. It does look Spanish, and Spain had many colonies at that time. Often colonies reused currency issued in other countries, as they had no mint of their own. Sometimes counterstamp was used for the purpose of legitimizing the currency for local circulation.

I have absolutely no idea about this one. I would post this question to people who are familiar with Spanish or Spanish colonial coinage.

I do not think that it has to do with Spain. Any official counterstamp would be found in Krause-Mishler. Then, there would rather be the ruler's mongram below the crown instead of ES.
As the "S" is not a cyrillic letter, the counterstamping was probably done on the western seam of the tsarist empire - by some count or noble house in Finland, the baltic countries or Poland. As has been confirmed now the counterstamp is not known in literature - must be a private issue. Thank you all Sigi

[one-kuna]

sigistenz, on Mar 14 2010, 03:00 PM, said:

Thank you all Sigi

[bobh]

sigistenz, on Mar 14 2010, 03:00 PM, said:

I do not think that it has to do with Spain. Any official counterstamp would be found in Krause-Mishler. Then, there would rather be the ruler's mongram below the crown instead of ES.
As the "S" is not a cyrillic letter, the counterstamping was probably done on the western seam of the tsarist empire - by some count or noble house in Finland, the baltic countries or Poland. As has been confirmed now the counterstamp is not known in literature - must be a private issue. Thank you all Sigi

You might want to ask over in the "World Coins" forum ... if this was an important collector, or even some member of a royal family, there is the possibility that other non-Russian coins might carry this same stamp (perhaps it's Swedish???).

[one-kuna]

lets put this way, what years do you think this counterstamp was made??

[squirrel]

sigistenz, on Mar 14 2010, 08:39 AM, said:

Yes indeed, Josh, it is not mine but a friend's, who is not familiar with this forum, doesn't speak English either. By the way I think this is the best non-Russian forum for Russian coins. The same question on a German forum has not yielded any answer yet, here we have however quite some opinions. I hope you are doing fine and still finding your way in the mountains of your coins. Sigi

no mountains of coins these days, just mountains of diapers!


I think a private collector would not counterstamp on both sides, to at least limit destruction!

[ccg]

A official counterstamp using in a country/colony to permit foreign coins to be used will usually bear the monogram or insignia of the issuing authority, usually the monarch. Ocassionally, you may see the local name instead.

While I understamp GXseries' rationale for "espana", there would be no reason that I see as to why abbreviate "espana".

If this is a government counterstamp of some sort, you would need to find a monarch with monogram "ES".

I there was also a number, it would be easier. (Like how many Danish coins can be easily identified, eg. CVII for Christian VII)

The only thing that I could think of is Edward (or variant) Sextus / Septimus.

[one-kuna]

counterstamped russian coins besides one of famous "Romanov" are very dark and unresearch part of numismatics,
those which were already found anyway are inexpensive and for curious collectors only in my opinion