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Excellent observation and comparison!

 

 

Indeed! It is very obvious but I never had noticed before.

Sigi

 

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The designs are similar, but the messages are worlds a part...

 

Back to Paul. Justifying the murder of Peter III was easy; he was widely viewed as a national traitor, or as Eugene put it "he lacked Russian soul." Romanovs and their historians had somehow to justify the murder of Paul I. That proved to be very difficult. Virtually, all of Paul's actions were beneficial to the nation, therefore you could not paint him with the same brush as Peter III. So, they started cultivating the idea of Paul being not all together, sort of a family idiot. The problem is that Paul's actions paint a completely different picture of him. When Paul made political mistakes he had the sense and the courage to correct them even if it meant reversing his previous decisions. My point is that you need to dig a little deeper than Wikipedia when it comes to Paul to understand his intents.

 

"In best traditions of royal family princes being romantic and looking for self-importance and self-realization before getting the throne, Russian Emperor Paul I has became a grandmaster of the Knights Order of Malta." I think you are oversimplifying things. Paul was 42, not 15 when he assumed the throne and his actions were logical and to the most part pragmatic. Chronologically, Paul was crowned in '96, became grandmaster in '98.

 

Paul's true religious and political designs are still a big mystery. One thing we can say for sure: he had a big change in mind that displeased some very serious players.

"In his search, he came across the Knights Templar slogan, that was a shortened version of the words of the psalm. He must have liked it and wanted to show the world that he was a true christian tzar, the defender of faith." I don't think Paul watched 'National Treasure.' ;)

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They should shoot a movie about him and the order. :) When did he join Knights Order of Malta? I didn't bother reading what Wiki says, but here is a reasonable article that explains that his interest in the order developed way before he became their grandmaster.

 

http://www.napoleon-series.org/military/battles/1798/c_Malta.html

 

You are correct that he became a grandmaster in 1798. My apology. This article may also shed some light on a big mystery of Paul's true religious and political designs. Both Peter III and Paul I should have built the government based on Russian culture and history. They knew more about Prussia than about Russia. They were not natural Russians and natural orthodox... They meant well, that may be, but you can not sit in Russian throne and be loved if you do not share the blood and sole with people of that country, it's like forcing your love on a women, she may let you but unless she loves you she will never accept you as hers.....

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I must confess that Paul's large silver coins are among my favorite Russian Imperial coins... Paul broke off with the tradition and put the words "Not onto us, not onto us, but in your name." Not sure this is the best translation.

 

Not only on silver coins.

1796 Chervonets:

1.jpg

 

By the way, the design of ... the averse - Peter the Great, that shows his ralation to him through his dad...

 

 

What do you mean?

Where do you see "Peter the Great" on Pavel I coins?

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Have seen a few of these in silver in MiM's auction database, none in copper. Doesn't have Diakov's reference number, can't find it on Rudenko's website either.

 

1024409.jpg

From the same series.

045-horz.jpg

Obverse: SCHWARZENBERG. Bust left surrounded by a closed wreath, signed LOOS.
Rev: Coat of Arms. The Schwarzenberg family motto, which is missing on this medal, is NIL NISI RECTUM = Nothing But Right. 1815 28mm Blackened Iron.
Schwarzenberg_Arms.jpg

046-horz.jpg

Obverse: GNEISENAU. Bust left surrounded by a closed wreath, signed LOOS.
Reverse: Coat of Arms FORTITER FIDELITER FELICITER. (Bravely, Faithfully and Cheerfully.) on the ribbon, COLBERG on the centre of the Shield. 1815 28mm Blackened Iron.
Perhaps struck from 'the spoils of war' cannons?
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Eugene,

 

Please excuse my earlier sarcasm with regards to your remark about Paul and Knights Templar. After decades of rehabilitation culminating with Dan Brown's and Walt Disney's opuses Knights Templars are viewed as some really nice guys. Back in the XVIII c. they were still largely viewed (particularly in Russia) as convicted criminals. It is highly improbable that Paul was inspired by some people convicted for the crimes against both Church and State. To understand his belief system one needs to understand his environment first.

 

The relationship between Russia and Catholic Orders, especially Knights Templar, is a fascinating subject to research, however it will be a tough slog to find anything meaningful without the access to some private archives.

 

Also, I would not go as far as saying that he did not have a "Russian soul." Like Peter III, Paul admired Prussia, but unlike Peter III he did not despise Russia. Paul wanted to see Prussian type discipline in the Russian army and government. He saw Russian titled nobility, who were also the officers of the guards regiments as a an obstacle to his ideal state. One can not really blame him for disliking the guards, given their role in overthrowing governments. It is important to note that while Peter III's actions benefited the aristocrats, Paul's reforms were much more democratic and hurt the aristocrats. He ended up stepping on some very gentle toes, who could not take the discomfort he was causing them.

.................................................................

 

Your findings about foreign influences on Russian coin design warrant an article, or perhaps a more fundamental study. Would love to have your book in my library :)

 

p.s. Do you have an extra copy of the magazine with your article for sale?

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Unfortunately, the editor sent me only one copy of the magazine, so I have one copy only, but here is the link for the article in russian (layout is different, otherwise it's the same):

 

https://mytaskhelper.ru/images/data/bAwDA18VfdJiCuWg94x6N4/caPWAIZQnfYAis3cEpr_Mc/Perechekanka%2018%20veka%20-%20versiya%2024.11.2013.pdf

 

Can you please expand on this, frankly I have no idea what you are talking about when you say: "...Back in the XVIII c. they were still largely viewed (particularly in Russia) as convicted criminals."?

Why particularly in Russia? From what I know the order met its end some 700 years ago and mattered no longer, apart from some Masonic secret societies claiming being their successors. That is also irrelevant. Later on Masonic and any other secret groups were outlawed in Russia, but in spite of any claims, they never had any connection to the knight cavalry that charged into attack in Holly Land in silence after mattering the lines of psalm "Not to us, O Lord, not unto us, but unto Thy Name grant glory..." - some 900 years ago, and fought to the end till they died or come up victorious, protecting piligrims. This was, and by all account still is, one of a most romantic story for any boy to hear, same as a story about Sparta or Roman Empire, the romantic history.

 

There were no connections between Russia and knights Templar apart of the stories told and books read, as far as I am aware. They met their end due to becoming too powerful and influential in the spheres of economy and finances, and being an independent army without a war they were very dangerous to states, whose borders they could freely cross. The easiest way to get rid of them was to charge them with heresy making them outlaws in the eyes of the Catholic Church and people.

 

Same fait befallen the Joan of Arc as you remember, but what she did inspired people and she lived on in their hearts and in stories. She also has no relation to Russian state, but every one knows her story there… Russian historians are very critical of Catholic Church as you can imaging...

 

There were a lot of accounts of knights Templar in the books and history texts. I am sure Paul I could pick it up somewhere while studying in the imperial court library. After all, he had an excellent education. Elisabeth was overlooking his upbringing in childhood and by her orders he was educated by N. I. Panin, one of the most educated Russian consuls of the time, up until he was removed from the court in 1783. So, I wouldn’t say he had no idea and no feelings for Russia, he did. But he also loved his father and hated his mother (who many loved for freedoms their enjoyed under her rule)... in Russia “slower you go, further you get”… or "if you hurry up too much, you will make people lough"... ;) He wanted to do and did too much, with little care for court politics...

 

Paul wanted to see Prussian type discipline in the Russian army and government. He saw Russian titled nobility, who were also the officers of the guards regiments as a an obstacle to his ideal state. One can not really blame him for disliking the guards, given their role in overthrowing governments. It is important to note that while Peter III's actions benefited the aristocrats, Paul's reforms were much more democratic and hurt the aristocrats. He ended up stepping on some very gentle toes, who could not take the discomfort he was causing them.” Fully agree with this. In Paul I, I see his father Peter III on a new level, with a lot more knowledge and understanding of Elithabeth, but with the same stright-forward thinking when it came to changes, making similar mistakes...

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From the same series.

045-horz.jpg

Obverse: SCHWARZENBERG. Bust left surrounded by a closed wreath, signed LOOS.
Rev: Coat of Arms. The Schwarzenberg family motto, which is missing on this medal, is NIL NISI RECTUM = Nothing But Right. 1815 28mm Blackened Iron.
Schwarzenberg_Arms.jpg

046-horz.jpg

Obverse: GNEISENAU. Bust left surrounded by a closed wreath, signed LOOS.
Reverse: Coat of Arms FORTITER FIDELITER FELICITER. (Bravely, Faithfully and Cheerfully.) on the ribbon, COLBERG on the centre of the Shield. 1815 28mm Blackened Iron.
Perhaps struck from 'the spoils of war' cannons?

 

Blackened Iron! That's unusual. Were cannon made of iron in the early 19th century? My impression is that they were still brass.

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Eugene,

 

Please excuse my earlier sarcasm with regards to your remark about Paul and Knights Templar. After decades of rehabilitation culminating with Dan Brown's and Walt Disney's opuses Knights Templars are viewed as some really nice guys. Back in the XVIII c. they were still largely viewed (particularly in Russia) as convicted criminals. It is highly improbable that Paul was inspired by some people convicted for the crimes against both Church and State. To understand his belief system one needs to understand his environment first.

 

I think Paul was the Grand Master of the Maltese Order of knights, who were from the Hospitaller order. The Templars were hunted down by the Catholic Church as Heretics back in the XIII or XiV century.

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Yes, that was said before. But why did he use the motto that was used by knights Templar? My guess is that he was an idealist who wanted to show that he is a true christian tzar, the defender of faith and of week, who will stand his ground till the end. After this proclamation he had to offer a shelter for the Maltese Order of knights when they lost their home, and against order rules they made him their grand master (who had to be salable and of Catholic faith - monk-like). My guess, he had an easily impressed nature. Later he was hiding from every one in a newly build castle with water all around and high walls, as his changes back-fired at him. He was strangled by people from his close surrounding with agreement of his son Alexander, who he viewed as his right hand, and who was haunted by this all his life afterwards. Both Alexander and Nicolas were his sons, so Paul did well, giving Russia another two monarchs. Some people live in their deeds, some in their kids... He managed a bit of both.

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Thank you for that link! Very interesting. For some reason I can only read this one page of the book. It sheds more light on what his personality was like.

 

Here some interesting extracts:

 

..."Безумным заблуждением было начинать царствование под тамплиерским девизом. Павел не мог не знать о страшных словах гроссмейстера Жака де Моле, проклявшего род французских королей до тринадцатого колена. Именно так оценила выпуск новой монеты роялистская эмиграция. Зато русское общество даже не всколыхнулось."

 

Short translation: "To start the reign of the Templar motto was an insane delusion. Paul should have known about the dreaded words of Grandmaster Jacques de Molay, who cursed the French kings until the thirteenth tribe. The release of a new coin was taken as an insult by French royalist emigration. But Russian society did not even stirred up."

 

..."Питая к ордену политические симпатии, Екатерина передала их сыну, чьей настольной книгой стало сочинение аббата Ферто, повествующее о славной истории первейшего в христианском мире военно-духовного братства. Воспитанный на восторженном поклонении перед рыцарской верностью и честью, Павел, такой непостоянный в своих пристрастиях, до конца жизни остался верен этой романтической страсти."

 

Short translation: "Having political sympathies, Catherine passed them to her son. Paul's favorite book was a story by abbot Firth, describing the glorious history of the first military-spiritual brotherhood in Christian world. Raised on an ecstatic worship to the chivalrous loyalty and honor, Paul, so fickle in his allegiances until the end of life has remained true to this romantic passion."

 

I am not sure how Catherine could pass this to Paul if he disliked her so much, and perhaps this is literately imagination running wild...

 

..."«Русский Дон Кихот!» – воскликнул Наполеон, узнав, кто стал великим магистром."

 

Short translation: "Russian Don Quixote!"- exclaimed Napoleon, when he learned who became a Grand Master... :)

 

..."Более того, операция с Мальтой была частью интриги, задуманной Талейраном лишь для того, чтобы поссорить Россию с Англией. Высадившись на острове, Наполеон едва ли надеялся удержать его надолго. Англичане, чей перевес на море был очевиден, вскоре отвоевали Мальту, бросив тем самым вызов новоиспеченному гроссмейстеру. Антифранцузская коалиция в итоге окончательно распалась."

 

Short translation: "Moreover, the operation with Malta was part of the intrigue, conceived by Talleyrand only to embroil Russia with England. After landing on the island, Napoleon hardly hoped to keep it for long. British, whose superiority was evident at sea, soon retook Malta, thus throwing a challenge to the newly made grandmaster. Anti-French coalition eventually disbanded."

 

The price that Paul and Russia paid for another title added to a long list of titles of Russian tzars was ridiculous. His coronation was performed with order's attributes, and Maltese cross became very symbolic. The power that was given to the order was disproportional.

 

..."Злые языки даже уверяли, будто сам Павел нацелился на ватиканский престол и только ждет удобного момента, чтобы сменить Пия."

 

Short translation: "Evil tongues even asserted that Paul himself set his sights on the Vatican throne, and only waiting for the right moment to replace Pius."

 

The secret police was 10 times as busy (comparing to times of his mother's reign) and the palace nobles were loosing or gaining the posts in the government with ridiculous speed.

 

He himself gave a green light to a fatal ring of conspiracies, that power disbalance stimulated day and night. Paul's reality became somewhat dysfunctional when he couldn't recognize his friends and foes. He acted purely on his instinct and believe that God will spare him from evil. The idealist that run into the traps of the reality of our world...

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He would probably do better by putting on a rouble something from Russian history, or at least one of the narrative sayings. For example: "Делу время, потехе час" ... "Business before the fun hour!", but that wouldn't be as cool and as romantic, would it?... :)

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In spite of his achievements, he meant well... and he has been idealized by some. Here is one of such opinion:

 

"His orders were distorted, and his words overheard and their meaning altered. He clearly understood that during his times England was more dangerous than France. As a tzar he was preparing anti-British coalition through India. Masons took part in his murder - fierce enemies of Orthodoxy. Just simple Russian people sensed holiness of the heart of God anointed Emperor but that happened after he's been slaughtered. And now he is the most revered Emperor, the one who stands before the Throne of God to beg his intercession and help against the unjust oppressors."

 

Here is another view:

 

"We must approach the opinions of those contemporaries of Paul with great caution, as they were seeking to portray his extravagant personality as a despot, almost crazy man, who inherited these traits from his father.

 

We know the off-hand views of some Russian historians who treat the morality of the Russian Tsars trying to meat their own reasons. The main measure of personality of the Russian Tsars for them not some objective evidence of the facts of their contemporaries and state activities, but the political position of the historian.

 

These views are the reason for the character assessments given by a particular historical person by descendants. Tzars whose activities bring benefit to the Russian people, usually branded as "despots", "crazy", or "the Bloody." Positive assessment of the Russian intelligentsia receive only rulers who, as Peter I and Catherine II, who led Russia to its unnatural historical path, destroying the foundations of the original Russian statehood. Therefore it is necessary to understand and treat with great care the view that Paul had despotic character and signs of mental unbalance since childhood.

Many of those who knew Paul I closely in one voice stress his knightly character traits. Princess Lieven states that: "At the heart of his character lay the greatness and nobility - generous to enemies, wonderful friend, he was able to forgive with the greatness, and his our guilt or injustice corrected with great sincerity."

 

Here is what Russian Emperor Paul I viewed himself:

 

"No parties, no interests matter to me but the interests of the state, and with my character it is hard to see that things go awry and that the reason for this is negligence and personal views. I wish better to be hated for what is righteous, than loved for something unjust".

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Blackened Iron! That's unusual. Were cannon made of iron in the early 19th century? My impression is that they were still brass.

There are a small number of other Prussian blackened iron medals from this period. Most Napoleonic field guns were bronze but defense, coastal & siege guns were often iron as well as naval cannons. As early as 1774 Matthew Boulton patented a technique for boring solid iron cast gun barrels, though iron cannons had been around a long time before that.

 

This is a 1815 blackened iron Dutch medal of Elverno's http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php/topic/22997-1815-coronation-of-william-i/

960590.jpg

 

http://www.timeriksen.com/inventory.shtml Another iron medal.

GERMANY - ANHALT-BERNBURG

2010-22%20Germany%20Anhalt-B%20-Rev.jpg

PRUSSIA. Campaign Medal for non-combatants with the year dates ‘1813’ and ‘1814’
In 1814 King Friedrich III. wanted to decorate his soldiers on the marching-in-parade in Paris. So the former imperial french mint in Paris got the order to struck as fast as they could the medals with 1813-1813/1814-1814. The Paris mint used metal from guns in stock in Paris, the guns conquered by Prussian troops were already on the way to Berlin.
Oval blackened iron medal with loop for ribbon suspension; the face with a cross pattée with rays between the arms, the dates ‘1813’ and ‘1814’ centrally; the reverse with the crowned cipher of Friedrich Wilhelm III above the inscription ‘für Pflichttreue / im / Kriege’ (for loyalty in wartime), circumscribed ‘Gott war mit uns, Ihn sey die Ehre’ (God was with us To Him the Glory); on replaced correct ribbon. The medal was instituted by King Friedrich Wilhelm III on 7 January 1815 to be awarded to those who in fulfilment of their professional duties passed through or worked in a war zone without actually fighting and were part of the army to which the combatants belonged (‘in Erfüllung ihrer Berufspflichten die Gefahren oder die Anstrengungen der Krieger geteilt haben, ohne unmittelbar zum fechtenden Stande der Armee d. h. zu den Kombattanten zu gehören’).
DE1193a.jpg

 

Seeing as these iron medals all seemed to be struck in c.1815 is what first lead me to speculate they could be from captured cannon metal.

 

This last medal's description seems to prove that . They were struck in Paris from French iron defensive cannons. With the bronze field cannons going to Berlin, where apparently some bronze medals were produced.

 

 

One last example of an iron medal from the same era;

Blucher. Bust to 1., draped with a lion's skin. Rev. A fine figure of
the Archangel Michael standing on, and spearing a demon who is supposed to represent Napoleon I.; 1813, 1814, 1815 in outer border. A splendid medal by Konig, after a design by Schinke1. Dedicated to Blucher by the citizens of Berlin, 1816. Iron.

 

Picture here.

http://www.coinarchives.com/w/lotviewer.php?LotID=1653377&AucID=1548&Lot=4276&Val=1a43a05929dd618d14343c583093e845

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But why did he use the motto that was used by knights Templar? My guess is that he was an idealist who wanted to show that he is a true christian tzar, the defender of faith and of week, who will stand his ground till the end. After this proclamation he had to offer a shelter for the Maltese Order of knights when they lost their home, and against order rules they made him their grand master (who had to be salable and of Catholic faith - monk-like). My guess, he had an easily impressed nature.

This could be part of it, I just do not think it is that simple. When thinking about Paul, I keep visualizing an overstrike from your essay. I believe what we see it the very last image...

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Sorry, missed it from before. Here are some historical notes for those who read Russian, but I do not think there is an easy answer to why he picked the motto:

 

http://iknigi.net/avtor-eremey-parnov/3623-maltiyskiy-zhezl-aleksandriyskaya-gemma-eremey-parnov/read/page-22.html

Igor and Eugene:

 

You are VERY serious scholars. But quoting pulp fiction...seriously?

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There are a small number of other Prussian blackened iron medals from this period. Most Napoleonic field guns were bronze but defense, coastal & siege guns were often iron as well as naval cannons. As early as 1774 Matthew Boulton patented a technique for boring solid iron cast gun barrels, though iron cannons had been around a long time before that.

 

This is a 1815 blackened iron Dutch medal of Elverno's http://www.coinpeople.com/index.php/topic/22997-1815-coronation-of-william-i/

 

Thanks for showing! Does the last medal look cast to anyone?

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Thanks for showing! Does the last medal look cast to anyone?

I must admit that it did not..........but after enlarging a small portion of it...... eisengussmedaille does appear correct. I guess a small picture of a 79mm medal hides a lot of the finer detail.

 

DetailBlucher.jpg

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