XVIII century Russian copper overstrikes: From Peter I cross 5 kopecks to Paul I recoening of 4 kopecks back into 2 with Cathrine II monogram dies.

[extant4cell]

XVIII century Russian copper overstrikes: From Peter I cross 5 kopecks to Paul I recoening of 4 kopecks back into 2 with Cathrine II monogram dies

 

It took me a while translate it to English, but I think I did a reasonable job, and apart from some grammar mistakes, I think it is readable. here is the link to PDF file: https://mytaskhelper.ru/images/data/bAwDA18VfdJiCuWg94x6N4/avStK641bkvPt2idPysoVa/XVIII%20century%20Overstrikes.pdf

 

If you read Russian, you may be able to read this article below. Thank you!

 

[extant4cell]

 

[extant4cell]

The article will be published in St. Petersburg in December 2013, in "Petersburg Collector" magazing ("Петербургский Коллекционер").

[gxseries]

I like it. Did you publish the article? Bit unfortunate that my Russian is very very rusty - will have to take time to read and understand. Would love to understand every single bit of it.

 

That said, is there anything with regards to Swedish 1 ore used as planchets to be overstruck as 1 kopek 1757 - 1762? Also is there any mention about 1802 2 kopek that used coins from earlier era as planchets? I know it sounds ridicious but I've seen a couple of images that seem to suggest there could be such a possibility.

[grivna1726]

 

XVIII century Russian copper overstrikes: From Peter I cross 5 kopecks to Paul I recoening of 4 kopecks back into 2 with Cathrine II monogram dies

I am yet to translate it to English, which may take me a while. If you read Russian, you may be able to read this article, if not, well, wait a little for my English language version. Thank you!

 

 

 

Thank you for posting. I look forward to the English translation. Even with my poor understanding of the Russian language, the pictures tell a great deal. Some truly wonderful coins there - are they yours?

 

I do not see pictures of Anna's overstrikes of Peter II kopeks shown. Are they included in the text?

 

Once again, thank you for your sharing your contribution to this most interesting aspect of Russian numismatic history.

[extant4cell]

I concentrated only on the coin types of one weight. I'd love to see the pictures of 1802 that suggest overstrike. There is a possibility of trial strikes, but they decided against it in the end as you know. It will be published in "Petersburg Collector" magazine in December. I will try to translate it to English soon. Swedish ore, not part of this research, but it is a fascinating part of overstrikes topic on its own.

[cool]

Just OCR the article. It will automatically recognize and translate it into English. http://www.free-ocr.com/

[one-kuna]

Does this article have an author ?

[extant4cell]

I wouldn't trust the auto-translation. Google translation is really weird, and I couldn't understand a thing. I am half-way translating it now. Pretty much writing it again, but in English. By the end of the week I should post English version of my article here. I am changing it a tiny bit, adding new thoughts, but essentially it will be the same.

[one-kuna]

Does this article have an author ?

[extant4cell]

I am sorry One-Kuna, don't mean to ignore you. I mentioned a couple of time that this is my article. I am the author, and the name is stated on the last page of the article. Thank you for asking.

[one-kuna]

no problem ty, mu fault

[gxseries]

You can't blame one-kuna - he was dying to know who the awesome writer is. :nod:

 

I'll be honest - I thought I saw a suspected 1802 2 kopek overstruck over an earlier type but I could be wrong. It has been a few years since I last checked it - I can't fully understand it for crying out loud There's a few illustration in the K.M. Temiraev book. I've only got the first edition - not sure what the second edition is like.

[extant4cell]

I finished translating it. Here is a full file in PDF. Please leave comments. I am interested to publish it in English, if there are any suggestions on where, please let me know.

File download: https://mytaskhelper.ru/images/data/bAwDA18VfdJiCuWg94x6N4/avStK641bkvPt2idPysoVa/XVIII%20century%20Overstrikes.pdf

[extant4cell]

You can't blame one-kuna - he was dying to know who the awesome writer is. :nod:

 

I'll be honest - I thought I saw a suspected 1802 2 kopek overstruck over an earlier type but I could be wrong. It has been a few years since I last checked it - I can't fully understand it for crying out loud There's a few illustration in the K.M. Temiraev book. I've only got the first edition - not sure what the second edition is like.

 

lol ... I have a hard copy of Kazbek's second edition somewhere and I have it in pdf as he shared it free of charge in the past. I'll have a look through the images tomorrow and will report if I find anything interesting. Thank you for letting me know the source of possible picture.

---------------------

OK. I had look through the catalog of 1802 2-kopecks. I could find only two coins with "overstrike" traces, but they both are overstrikes / double strikes, so to speak. Overstriking it's own type of coin. It is either was a faulty image as a result of the first production, or more likely an overstrike on the EM 2-kopecks with EM under the eagle, as they tried to destroy these early issue coins.

 

 

 

I don't believe the second edition greatly vary from the first, it may have more types and pictures though.

 

Here is an article he printed in Numismat (russian) that mentions EM under eagle:

http://coins.su/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=46474

http://coins.su/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=46475

http://coins.su/forum/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=46476

(you'll have to save and turn the last page around, as it's upside-down).

 

Here is one of these coins, where you can see the traces of EM under the eagle:

[one-kuna]

the reason I asked about this article and his author just to get a picture what pushed you to write it out

[extant4cell]

I came to numismatics as a collector, I've been collecting overstrikes for a years. The time came to update my knowledge and summarize what I've learned from experience and from different sources so far. I got inspired by the subject that is not really popularized enough among the collectors. People collect overstrikes, but not many collectors, who mostly collect, know their history, how to analyse them, what to look out for. Also, I guess, it's the way I learn better myself, writing it down. I hope it will be helpful for some people. I know if I found an article like this about a few years ago, it would be an interesting read for me. I didn't "discover Africa" with this article, just shared my view on things. So far I had lots of positive comments, although, I prepared myself for lots of criticism, that I'd welcome, only hope for it to be constructive. I wonder if you found it useful or interesting. Have you? I didn't try to target the very experienced numismatic reader with this article, so I won't be surprised if the answer would be "no". My feel about you and many other people on this forum is that of very experienced and knowledgeable numismatist that I can learn from. Your input would be greatly appreciated though, as everyone. This is also my first experience in translating numismatic material to English, so I hope it makes sense as I probably made too many deviations from what is known as traditional terms, as many of them I had to chose myself. Should probably consult other English language publications, like Brekke in order to standardise the language used... Again, thanks for asking.

[gxseries]

I'm sure Uzdenikov has written an article about overstrikes a while ago. Unfortunately as my Russian is just too rusty, I don't understand much of it other than "ne znayu" or "chto eta".

 

Here's a couple of pages from his book

 

http://gxseries.com/dump/pg095.jpg

http://gxseries.com/dump/pg096.jpg

 

Pretty sad to buy articles that you can't even read but hope some day down the road you'll be able to understand it somehow.

 

I actually quite enjoyed it although it could use a bit more editing. It's good to see illustrations in color.

 

I did learn a lot from Uzdenikov's bilingual book 2nd edition and this is still the bible for me. I've also learned a fair bit from this forum as well over the many years.

 

I just only realized that you live in Melbourne - what a shame. If I was any closer, I think we could have looked at each other's collection and have a long chat.

[extant4cell]

I would so loved to see your collection!

 

This article is a part of his "articles on numismatics" book (from memory) 2004. I used it as a reference. I also saw his visual schematics posted on one of the forums, simple b/w drawing, but I couldn't find it's source. I had to make my own compilation-2 adding a few things. That work along set me back an extra week, with all cross-referencing I had to do, analysis of past auctions materials and simply editing it in Photoshop... but I'm glad I did it, as I will be using it for a quick reference from now-on for these coins.

 

 

Living in Melbourne, kind of sucks, when it comes to Russian coins. There are a lot of "investors" into Russian coins that are only in it to make money, and I don't know anyone with a genuine interest that I could talk to face to face, apart from my friends that simply tolerate me, and I'm trying not to overload their heads with this information. So, the forums are my "breath of fresh air"... I'll edit it further as time goes, I just wanted to share it with your for your opinion. Thank you.

[extant4cell]

Here are a couple of interesting overstrikes, the second one is especially for you gxseries:

 

Clear F-G

 

1 Kopeck from ORE.

[gxseries]

I like it!

 

This coin I reckon is the best Russian 1 kopek over Swedish 1 ore coin

 

 

This is not my coin - it's mawett. You can see his collection over at omnicoin. Very very impressive.

[extant4cell]

This is a very interesting example with the year being visible. Thank you for showing!

[extant4cell]

Here is another sweet pair:

 

By the way, I just spent 3 hours looking through the images of Paul's 2 kopecks coins. I saw a few double-strikes, but not a single hint on overstrike...

 

But I found some other interesting coins:

• 

 

• 
• 

• 

Нowever, to say for sure that these are true overstrikes is difficult, the debate was hot, with divided opinions... The last coin - someone had an opinion that it's a fake made in Novgorod around 2006, or that's when it came to light.

[extant4cell]

Gxseries, this may be of interest to you. I came across this article in Russian ( http://allcoins.msk.ru/?p=4403 ). Here is some interesting information concerning over-strikes not only from Swedish coins into Russian, but Russian into coins of other nations:

... Swedish coins recoining (no doubt in large numbers, but the documents attesting to this still not found) in the years 1757-1758 Sestroretsky mint kopecks differ from other as they are wider and thinner. [no more or new information given]....

Now, some episodes that relate to numismatics of the imperial period in the history of Russia:

 

- 1802. Ionian Islands (Ионическиe острова), during the time of the Napoleonic wars, ware under co-protectorate of Russia and Turkey, there were some coins issued in three denominations. Wherein at least a portion of coins of denomination 5 Gazette were made from recoined Paul I coins (apparently, brought in by sailors from Russian squadron).

 

- 1813 .Polish town of Zamosc ("Замостье" / "Over-the-bridge") , was under attack from Russian army for a long time. In these exceptional circumstances, they re-coined Austrian 6-grosh coins into Polish 3-grosh coins.

 

- 1840 . 3-kopecks of 16-rouble standard re-coined from 5-kopecks of Catherine II. (If the coin is genuine, in favor of which there are some good reasons, then it can be considered one of the unexpected results of the impact of human factors) ...

[Alas, there is no additional information. Question is, which 5 kopecks were used to produce 3-kopecks. Here is some simple math: Regular 3-kopecks of 1840 issue weights 30.71 gr. Regular 5-kopecks of Elizabeth II - 51.19 gr. Siberian 5-kopecks of Elizabeth II - 32.76 gr.... the weight is in favor of Seberian coin, but their availability may be against it]

 

- End of 1870s - beginning of XX century. Khivan Kingdom minted copper coins using Russian 1867 types of coins as blanks.

 

- In 1919-1920 years. On the territory of Chechnya in the village of Vedeno there was a limited copper coins issue, with use of (at least in part) Russian 1867 types of coins as blanks.

[gxseries]

I like it Eugene. I'll start to hunt them down. I've got reasons to doubt the 1837 2 kopek coin as well. Wondered what the edge looked like.

 

Did the article mention about Iran using Russian 2 kopek coins (1810 - 1830) as planchets? I've been hunting for one but they are rather scarce.

 

There was also a 1742 (?) grivennik overstruck over a 1741 ruble if I am not mistaken. I forgot to save the pictures and I can't find the thread