A coinpeople.com forum collection challenge for next year

[gxseries]

Something I thought of - not new but when I saw the gallery section, I thought it's kind of sad that it is not well utilizated. Well it can't be helped since it can be difficult to navigate to.

 

However at the same time, I have been awed by some of the amazing coins that everyone have been sharing over the years (yes, coinpeople is quite old). It made me think - just how much can we cover in let's say the basic Uzdenikov's catalog or Bitkin or even Brekke? (and so forth) We can expand on that later but I reckon we can cover a fair amount. Maybe over 50%? 60%? Or there's just too many to collect.

 

Good project to work on but I think there is a need to organize a mammoth gallery. Something similar to http://www.zeno.ru would be neat. Of course, the overall goal of this is all the coins are to come from this forum members' collection - not from major auction house catalogs.

 

Who knows, this might be interesting as what might be thought as common may turn out to be tougher than expected. Anyone interested?

 

And also let's not forget Steve's grand scale project: http://grandduketranslation.pbworks.com - Indeed it's the Grand duke project.

[BKB]

That is a serious project, that would require assistance of a few guys here that will never share images for various reasons. Without them, I do not think we have enough even for a date run (one coin per year) even if we start from 1725.

 

Other than that, you need to create a manageable database and there has to be a moderator, who moves images to a proper place. No one else should be able to add or remove images to/from the database itself. We can start with Uzdenikov, but most of the rare stuff will be missing, if we only post stuff from our collections. Also, it only makes sense if it is created for die comparison, so the condition of the coins should be VF+/XF and higher. There is no reason to post rotten coins with barely visible devices into the database, because they provide no information.

[oregoncoin]

That is a serious project, that would require assistance of a few guys here that will never share images for various reasons. Without them, I do not think we have enough even for a date run (one coin per year) even if we start from 1725.

 

Other than that, you need to create a manageable database and there has to be a moderator, who moves images to a proper place. No one else should be able to add or remove images to/from the database itself. We can start with Uzdenikov, but most of the rare stuff will be missing, if we only post stuff from our collections. Also, it only makes sense if it is created for die comparison, so the condition of the coins should be VF+/XF and higher. There is no reason to post rotten coins with barely visible devices into the database, because they provide no information.

 

I nominate BKB to be moderator. Do I hear a second?

[gxseries]

BKB, that's not the point. You need a startup point somewhere. Can't have really too high expectations otherwise it's doomed to failure from the beginning. Overall goal is to have fun and then add in research or modify goals when things start to fall in place. Agreed, a manageable database is very important - unfortunately my IT skills are a joke and I do not know any better way of dealing with such.

 

This forum especially the Russian coin forum section was started up by a few amateur collectors and a lot of people from other forums were highly skeptical of this site in the first place. What needs to keep things going is the enthusiasm. Needless to say, I posted a fair amount here - some of my earlier posts can be painfully immature.

 

Again, this is a one sided game - if you don't want to contribute, there's no offense to that. It would be really nice but not necessary. Same deal with omnicoin.com - it's up to you to upload there if you like and share images. But again, Russian coins do not just mean coinage from 1700-1917; it does include from Soviet era to current times.

 

I'm not dreaming of a database where it becomes a stage for people with bomb lot of money to feature their collection. True, collecting nicer coins will require more money but at the same time, varities or rarity discovery do not necessary start out with high grade coins.

 

That said, might shoot akdrv a mail and see what he can come up with.

[bobh]

BKB, that's not the point. You need a startup point somewhere. Can't have really too high expectations otherwise it's doomed to failure from the beginning. Overall goal is to have fun and then add in research or modify goals when things start to fall in place. Agreed, a manageable database is very important - unfortunately my IT skills are a joke and I do not know any better way of dealing with such.

The web hosting service I use offers an open source image management program called "Gallery". It is free and can be installed on just about any server since it is PHP based (you also need some other software such as NetPBM or ImageMagick, though, but that is also free). I use it to display my own collection here: http://hairgrove-goldberg.com/Gallery. It is also very easy to administer, but some of the finer points might require a little basic understanding of how the WWW and websites and their servers work (there is a link to the Gallery homepage on every page somewhere; maybe at the bottom?)

 

I didn't configure my own Gallery for extensive searching, but this is also not the newest version of their software. It offers a basic hierarchical navigation of a tree. Gallery 2 can use a MySQL database as a back end; not sure if Gallery 1.x can use that. My own website is terribly slow because all of the structure is in the file system instead of in a database, and each page load requires parsing of numerous such files in order to generate the links to the previous + next pages ... ughh! So if I can do it over again (and I will whenever I find a little time to do so), I will do it differently using a real database as backend.

[BKB]

This can only work if it is structured like a catalog. Then we would add photographs of coins linked to catalog entries. No need for search option when it is easy to browse the catalog. That said, I cannot be this moderator, because my computer skills are wanting. However, my whole imperial collection, a complete date set of Soviet Coins, and image database is at your service.

[akdrv]

I can take care of the technical side of things, but not organizational. Someone needs to take on collecting and organizing images, perhaps several people.

 

What do you think of a Wiki style site where large images can be uploaded? I doubt that OmniCoin system where everyone is uploading their own images will work in this case.

With a Wiki site we can setup several editors who will upload images and info in a consistent format.

Wiki software is pretty flexible and data can be structured as a catalog.

[bobh]

I can take care of the technical side of things, but not organizational. Someone needs to take on collecting and organizing images, perhaps several people.

 

What do you think of a Wiki style site where large images can be uploaded? I doubt that OmniCoin system where everyone is uploading their own images will work in this case.

With a Wiki site we can setup several editors who will upload images and info in a consistent format.

Wiki software is pretty flexible and data can be structured as a catalog.

The Wiki format is great -- and since a lot of people are already used to it, I think this would be a good choice.

 

I can help with the organizational things, too. Steve Moulding would be the ideal person to start us off with some of the many images he already has in his own database (although I believe that he is intent on cataloguing auction images, I'm sure he has awesome images of his collection).

[Rhino]

I'd gladly contribute some of my images, too my collection is mostly Nicholas II era, and everything is VF+ and up. Great idea, I'd like to see this develop.

[BKB]

Guys, can you post a link to a sample "wiki" format catalog? I am not sure I understand how that looks... I think the best format is this:

 

http://numismat.ru/catalogs.shtml

[one-kuna]

Great idea, gxseries !

 

About 25 years ago, there were some words, suggestions and wishes to create such data base on russian coinage informed us in one of Journal of RNS. Since that time, there are many private and public ones have been created. Seems like this idea can be realized succefully utilizing latest modern technology.

I can consult and input as well

[akdrv]

Wiki can be configured to have any number of fields on a page and a page in any number of categories. I'm also looking at another content management system that can be configured for this purpose.

 

Basically, you guys tell me what you need (how data will be organized, categories, years, data fields, image sizes etc.) and I will setup a website with wiki or other software configured for your requirements.

[BKB]

Akdrv, is it possible to do it in the format of numismat.ru? I do not mean the fancy paintings of tzars, but the ability to brows by tzar and year.

[one-kuna]

by tsar and year is indeed fast reference most folks would suggest to use in order to find the item needed

[thedeadpoint]

Will this new venture be linked to Coinpeople.com directly? I hope so. I'd love to see a mutual effort and support system.

[gxseries]

Following numismat.ru template is extremely easy. The real challenge comes to how to put in a page and illustrate various varities. For instance, there's more than 100 different types for the 1802 EM 2 kopek (!) There is a book published for this particular coin.

 

I guess we can upload the coin images and then compare them side to side. Note, the reason why I have asked for forum member images is because we own the rights to every single one of them. If we need more details, we can always reshoot the photos. Auction house images often feature rarer coins but due to copyright and such, some great sites get pulled down. Would be a shame. At the same time, it's also a great opportunity for us to show and review what coins we have. Of course admire other collections as well.

 

I will also nominate Steve for his great research in Russian coinage and am also sure that he can provide a better guideline than what I thought of originally.

 

Lots of ideas floating but I like how this is going Thank you guys for your support.

[BKB]

Forget varieties. We will not have enough for a denomination/date run. Let us start with Uzdenikov and see where it gets us. Hopefully we can graduate to Il'in. (doubtful...) While most years are easy, some are just tough to impossible. Steve is very busy with work right now. I doubt he would take up this job.

 

As to die varieties of 2 kop of 1802, I would not be too crazy about that opus of Kazbek. The number of die varieties of a 1790 EM 5 kop should be in serious thousands. Who cares? Not too many people are that anal.

[alexbq2]

I like the format of m-dv.ru, it's almost the same as MiM's but they have multiple images per coin, which allows to organize by varieties by simply adding a comment to a coin and organizing images by position on the page. I would prefer to see as many varieties as possible. Of course coins and images would have to be of sufficient quality to draw conclusions, and someone or perhaps several people will have to filter out fake and questionable coins.

[BKB]

Why not? If it is technically possible, then varieties will not hurt, as long as, listing as many die varieties as possible for common coins (and, there could be thousands of those per coin) does not take over like cancer.

[gxseries]

Since I started with the idea of making a wiki of Russian numismatics, I thought I might as well add in what my vision is.

 

If you have checked out wikipedia.org and have used it, it's an extraordinary powerful resource collaborated by various people who contribute and edit other people's works. These people may not be professionals but the information they provide can be said to be very useful. More information about how wikipedia works can be seen here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki

 

I personally find numismatic books to be nearly outdated because you can have books that have mintage, varities and other information but often you need to cross reference between so many books. Furthermore, information can be scarce. With wiki, this solves a lot of these problems.

 

So what can wiki do when it comes to numismatics?

 

You can:

 

Add detailed information about coins, varities, mintage, mints, cross referencing and such

Tracking what mint struck what coins - can be interesting if it was struck abroad or struck for overseas

Historic pricing of certain coins, referencing to auction houses

Detailed articles of political nature of some coins

Times when coins were not issed but some other currency was used in place of coins

A section on counterfeit coins

 

There are other possibilties of using wiki but I'll put it to there.

 

 

So how can one contribute?

 

The beauty of this is that one do not have to be good in English to contribute. One do not have to be an expert in using wiki or even a veteran in collecting Russian coins.

 

One can do the following:

1) Upload images of their collection

2) Identify different varities and make comments

3) Editing other people's work

4) Write up articles

5) Keeping track of sales of certain coins

6) Referencing from other sites

7) Translate articles into English for people that have difficulties with English

 

Of course, there may be many other possibilties that I have not thought of yet.

 

What should one NOT do?

Bearing in mind, this is a teamwork of a long term project and it is essential to understand that everyone comes from a different background. This is a collaboration of volunteers who wish to share their knowledge, effort and time.

 

1) This database is not to be used for advertising for personal interest, i.e. sales of personal collection

2) This is not a race of who owns the most amazing coin

3) Copy and paste articles that are copyrighted and you do not own the rights or have not asked permission to do so

4) Vandalize or attack other forum members for whatever reason

 

Overall goal

Bear in mind, this is a really long term project that one shouldn't expect to see it florishing overnight. This forum, coinpeople.com took probably about 5 years to get around to this stage so I am not suprised if it takes that long or even longer to make it a reasonably sized database.

 

1) Must be fun

2) Respect other individuals. This includes respecting other people's culture as well as other people's work.

3) Able to handle criticism when other people edit your work

 

Guess this is my idea of what a wiki about numismatics should be like but feel free to comment or disagree with my points. Thank you!

[alexbq2]

So where do we host?

[bobh]

So where do we host?

I assume we would host here on the same server as where the forum is being hosted.

[gxseries]

You got to give akdrv the credits for taking his time to host coinpeople.com, manage omnicoin.com database and now we are asking for this wiki stuff. I'm sure he's a really busy man so let's give him a bit of time. Not like we are in rush to do stuff but I know there's plenty of eager people.

 

Once again, thank you Anton.

[akdrv]

I'm setting up a website at http://www.RussianCoinsCatalog.com

Give me a few days to get it up and running (setting up a wiki is a learning experience for me too )

 

In the mean time can we discuss format, requirements and rules for the new site.

 

If we take numismat.ru structure as a starting point, what would you like to add?

I nominate GX and bobh to be global moderators (since they both volunteered).

 

I think that this project will work only if it's managed by a few moderators (not everyone uploading their own content)

Anyone submitting images, etc. will definitely be given credit, but for the information to be presented in a consistent fashion it

should be uploaded my moderators only.

 

New forum for posts related to this project.

[vasil]

I would be happy to contribute with pics at such great project (even I am just a newbie in this field)